quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose What are you worried about? A mexican immigrant "stealing" your job? if you have a nice well paid upper level job you most likely have nothing to worry about. If you dont you should have paid more attention in school instead of fearing that an immigrant will take that lovely cashier job at McDonald's away from you.

quote:

Felons, homeless replace illegal immigrants at Ga. poultry plant Associated Press Monday, November 27, 2006 STILLMORE, Ga. — A south Georgia poultry plant is busing in felons on probation and homeless men to fill jobs left empty since federal agents arrested illegal Mexican immigrants in raids two months ago. Each day, about 40 convicted felons are bused from Macon to work at the Crider Poultry plant here. Sixteen men from a homeless mission in Augusta have worked in the plant, and the mission is looking to send more. Crider President David Purtle said that's just a drop in the bucket for a plant operating at 450 employees, less than half of the 1,000 workers there before the raid. Purtle said the company is also spending more on hiring — paying to bus in the probationers, for example — and on training, because many of the new hires have poor attendance and quit quickly. Federal immigration officials began visiting the plant in May, estimating that about 700 workers were using false identification. Many employees were confronted and fired. Some left on their own. Over Labor Day, federal agents raided the plant and rounded up more than 120 illegal immigrants. http://www.columbusdispatch.com/nat...hp?story=229290

Hey look, a thousand Americans that needed a break are going to get it because they caught the illegal immigrants taking their jobs.

Obviously land mines and machine guns nests are
a joke and exageration hehe.

But in all seriousness I can't see how people want
to argue that it's wrong for a country to have complete
control and knowledge of who comes in... It just boggles
my mind how people think it's wrong...

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Cuba? That's a whole other can of worms. That too is taxing
our navy and coast guard's resources. But I'm sure there's
plenty of people here who would defend castro's regime and
policies to no end when his own people are risking thier lives
to get the hell out.
"You can take measure of a country by how many people want in,
and how many people want out"

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Someone questioned my statement that legal Hispanics are mostly
for strong immigration control:
http://www.eastvalleytribune.com/index.php?sty=79818
"In several different surveys, pollsters found that many Hispanics
in Arizona continued a trend of voting in favor of antiillegal
immigration measures"

Don't have time to go find you links and polls that show a
national trend by legal hispanics for strict enforcement but
there's one example, and this is coming from a Hispanic too, me.

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Visas, that is one part of a broad strategy which includes a tight
border. Is it flawed? Yes. But This thread is about a border fence.
Tight border means they will have to use a legal system like visas.
It's not perfect but it's damn better than just coming in unannounced...
The visa system is another that needs reform and I'll leave those
details to the systems in place to deal with it. But I don't think
any country on this planet embraces the idea of undocumented people
streaming into their country...

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They are good people, no one is saying they're not good, hard working
people with strong family values and religious values. But it's not
fair us tax payers must support them with our social services.

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC But in all seriousness I can't see how people want to argue that it's wrong for a country to have complete control and knowledge of who comes in... It just boggles my mind how people think it's wrong...

It's not a matter of being wrong: it's a matter of being impossible.

Also, considering the fact that spending money with the illegal immigrants is a concern, spending even more money with them (for something that probably will not be effective) doesn't seem to be a wiser solution.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC They are good people, no one is saying they're not good, hard working people with strong family values and religious values. But it's not fair us tax payers must support them with our social services.

In that case, it would be a more realistic solution to find ways to tax them, rather than looking for ways of protecting a three thousand kilometre long border

What the hell is wrong with a cheap fence? Of course it's
impossible to keep everyone out 100%. We know that. The current
control is a joke and that's the problem. We want to improve it
alittle. That's all.

People need to stop telling us not to waste our money yadayadayada.
A decent fence WILL go a long way to control the problem alittle
and that's all we want.

Tax them? As more stream in that will try not to be taxed... They're
illegals meaning they can be arrested and deported... They won't send
the government a check based on their undocumented income... We need
to stem the flow of illegals in, and I support giving the current
illegals already in a legal system to work, i.e. guest worker program
and someway to enter a path to real citizenship.

But the flow needs to be curtailed a tad. And a mediocre fence,
at a decent price is all we want and we're getting crap for it...

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE

Your not making any sense. First you are talking about a cheap fence and then about a decent one. Decent and cheap don't belong together. You don't need more than some wire cutters to get trough a cheap fence anyway (maybe an axe? a wooden fence is also cheap) and even a concrete fence can be easily climbed if you really want to get over it (but then again a concrete fence is anything but cheap). Unless its really your intention to keep machine gun nests within viewing distance of each other and put some land mines in between people are going to get get trough before anyone arrives at the scene. All that money gone for nothing.

And of course a fence can also be used to keep people in as well as out. Remember that if in 50 years you wind up with an ultra conservative christian theocracy and want to get the hell out while you are still alive but cant because there is a wall and a couple of machine gun nests blocking your way.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Moongoose Your not making any sense. First you are talking about a cheap fence and then about a decent one. Decent and cheap don't belong together. You don't need more than some wire cutters to get trough a cheap fence anyway (maybe an axe? a wooden fence is also cheap) and even a concrete fence can be easily climbed if you really want to get over it (but then again a concrete fence is anything but cheap). Unless its really your intention to keep machine gun nests within viewing distance of each other and put some land mines in between people are going to get get trough before anyone arrives at the scene. All that money gone for nothing.

Ah I already said before it is impossible to keep everyone
out... And yes even a wire fence will have an impact on the
flow... An impact that will justify the cost... Wire fence
cheap compared to a concrete wall? Yes. Is it decent? Yes.

quote:

And of course a fence can also be used to keep people in as well as out. Remember that if in 50 years you wind up with an ultra conservative christian theocracy and want to get the hell out while you are still alive but cant because there is a wall and a couple of machine gun nests blocking your way.

Wow. You ever been here? Ever lived in the United States of America?
Obviously not if you think that's how we are and heading in that
direction...
The country is divided, liberals and atheists abound especially in
the media. Most urban centers are very liberal. The rural areas are
conservative and religious.
The country is becoming more liberal and most younger generations
are atheists. This has been going on for decades. I hate how foreigners
who have never been here think we're a bunch of religious conservative
cowboys. 90% of my friends don't even believe in god. And far from conservative.


Anyway, would a fence help stem the tide? Yes.
Is it possible to get in anyway? Yes.
Would it be cheap? Why do you ppl care, it's not your money.
Do we need tighter border control for homeland defense? Yes.
Does a country have the right to do as they please with their
border enforcement? Yes.

___________________

Electric Zoo 2010! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVE-RutexSE