Oh, and with regards to the Dujail massacre....this was also the result of an attempted assasination. Wouldn't a fairly harsh reprisal be understandable (to some degree)? ie: rounding up people on the loose suspicion of doing something wrong? Then maybe throwing them in jail in Cuba without representation?

Sorry, I don't mean to go off on a Bush bashing tangent, that's not my point. My point is that I think the Kurdish massacre has more legitimacy on genocidal grounds than a relatively small event like the one at Dujail (though the loss of life is equally revolting).

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Originally posted by pmoisse Oh, and with regards to the Dujail massacre....this was also the result of an attempted assasination. Wouldn't a fairly harsh reprisal be understandable (to some degree)? ie: rounding up people on the loose suspicion of doing something wrong? Then maybe throwing them in jail in Cuba without representation? Sorry, I don't mean to go off on a Bush bashing tangent, that's not my point. My point is that I think the Kurdish massacre has more legitimacy on genocidal grounds than a relatively small event like the one at Dujail (though the loss of life is equally revolting).

What??!

Legitimate genocide???
There's no such thing, sorry.

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I dont remember anyone of this level being executed for their crimes other than Moussolini.

All others have either been captured, hiding away in some remote villiage, or in jail like Melosovich.

Very very shocking that Saddam has been executed.. im very surprised that this went forward so fast.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King I dont remember anyone of this level being executed for their crimes other than Moussolini. All others have either been captured, hiding away in some remote villiage, or in jail like Melosovich. Very very shocking that Saddam has been executed.. im very surprised that this went forward so fast.

Well, he pretty much had 30 days. so there was no speculation as to what was going to happen. but either way, it went ahead a little quicker than I expected it too.

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It was estimated he killed 2 million.

It was time for him to die.

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The circumstances were truly extraordinary for such a big fish to fall into the enemy's hands and eventually get executed. The involvement of US, the determination of the Shiite Government to settle scores and the fact that the trial was held in Iraq itself, helped seal Saddam's fate.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r What??! Legitimate genocide??? There's no such thing, sorry.

I'm not condoning or legitimizing genocide. I'm simply comparing the two crimes he was tried for. I feel that he shouldn't have been executed before the verdict on the second trial.

It doesn't give the people affected any closure or recourse at all. In effect, the case against him gets dropped.

Where's the justice in that?

thats what this has been all about. moving forward.

It seems like we're not as modern as we would like to think ourselves.

appearanley it took 2 tries before it was sucessful. Is this true?

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I oppose the death penalty as a general rule and I'm not about to make an exception in this case. Ghandi once said that a measure of a civilization is how well it treats its animals, but I think the same judgement can be made with regards to its treatment of criminals: no civilised population on the planet supports the murder of defenceless human beings. The belief that barbarism is a justifiable reaction to barbarism betrays a visceral, tribalistic morality, that has gradually been supplanted in the civilised world with the advent of reason. A population that suports capital punishment still has a lot of progress to make, in my opinion. I can sympathise with the desire of many Iraqis to see Saddam Hussein hanged, but that doesn't make it right. The execution of criminals is, was and always will be wrong, cultural relativism be damned.

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Originally posted by Ian The thing that confuses me is that he's still on trial for other crimes I thought, so how can he be hanged before that's concluded at least?

You can only receive the death sentence once, no matter how many crimes you've committed.

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Originally posted by pmoisse The problem I have with it is that he was tried by a court and government that is still trying to legitimize itself. Sure he was bad and deserved to go on trial, but why not at The Hague like Milosevic or Pinochet (who was too ill to stand trial)? Oh yeah, because the US doesn't recognize the Internatoinal Criminal Court.

Also because the ICC doesn't support the death penalty. Genocidal political leaders (from the Nazis onward) have always been tried by international tribunals, so I'm not sure why an exception was made in the case of Saddam Hussein. In fact, I'm not even sure what crime he was charged with: was genocide illegal in Iraq when he was in power?

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I'm skeptical regarding the fairness of the trial, even though I have no doubts that he was guilty of something.

The trial was a farce. He was denied access to his lawyers, who were in turn denied access to the evidence being presented by the prosecution. The trial proceded even when no member of the defence team was present and there were constant questions about the legitimacy of the court and the US trained judges. It's one thing to mete out the death penalty, it's quite another to mete out the death penalty at the end of a shonky trial.

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Originally posted by Q5echo thats what this has been all about. moving forward.

Yes, because if there's one thing sure to take Iraq forward it's more death and reprisal.

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Originally posted by Renegade The trial was a farce. He was denied access to his lawyers, who were in turn denied access to the evidence being presented by the prosecution. The trial proceded even when no member of the defence team was present and there were constant questions about the legitimacy of the court and the US trained judges. It's one thing to mete out the death penalty, it's quite another to mete out the death penalty at the end of a shonky trial.

That maybe so, but in the end, would it have really mattered? Technically speaking everbody, including Sadam, knew why he was there. I don't think the court would have cared if the trial was 30days or 30min. they had pretty much made up their mind and any evidence wouldn't have swayed their opponion (even though nothing can really be said in defence of Sadam).

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