quote:

Originally posted by WM2 there was a very extensive rail system once you hit the German half of Poland, but until then it's all trucks or planes

I think this is incorrect, there were Russian rail systems, but they were different specs than the German ones, so everything being transported needed to be unloaded and then reloaded onto different trains.

I might be wrong.

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Originally posted by Cyrus King i listen to trance becuase it is beautifully composed like a classical piece of music.... but with beats in it...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

You are correct about the gauge of the rails...

Interesting tidbit, GE made a series of electric locomotives for use in the USSR after the war, but due to political turmoil/rising cold war they were never delivered. They were re-tooled for standard North American guage rail and were called "Little Joes" after Stalin...



These, along with Box-Cab Electrics are by far my most favorite electric era locomotives...


Anyways. I think the Soviets could have pushed the Allies back into france... probably to the spanish border before being repelled using nuclear weapons and a massive surge in military strength.

Most of this would need to be based on surprise though for the Russians...

In the end the Russians would have lost.

Not until the 50's did the Soviets have enough forces to engage the former Allied, now NATO forces in decisive combat. Russia could have rolled over West Germany for a good part of the 50's and 60's and then again in the 1980's.

When I tried to do this (playing risk of course) Australia smoked me

Logistically, i don't think Russia had a prayer, as respondants have already illustrated, they were outgunned, and against superiour air power, I think Russia would've been incapable of maintaining the pace that such an invasion would've required. The only wildcard, in my mind, is the Russian Muhammed-Imar-Bruce-Lee-Chuck-Norrisesque ability to fight in winter.

bump*

Sorry if this topic disturbs some of you

How about if Stalin went into the Middle East(saudi Arabia, Omon, Yemen) right after the war. Would the Allies have gone to war with them than? Or would the USSR have easily conquered the ME and made them a part of the USSR. This would in turn we wouldn't be having problems with radical islam and the region wouldn't be so strange in western standards??

Alright, I'll stop being a dick because I am feeling very good today so I'll post.

Basically, there was no way Russia was going to sweep through the entire Europe. Earlier setbacks on the Eastern Front killed 11 million troops, and injured millions of other soldiers for a long time. By the time Russians met Americans in Central Germany, it was about 2-4 million Soviet troops versus 5-6 million Allied forces. Soviets were desperately short on resources, supplies, and were facing a ruined country at home. Allies, however, only destroyed 106 Nazi divisions (as compared to 600+ by Soviets), so they held advantage at that point, in manpower, supplies, arms and support from other countries. Stalin would have never defeated Allies at that point. But they would have not attacked either.


When Allies landed in France and Italy, Stalin already called it publicly that he lost the war. Why?
Turns out, in 1939, Soviet Union started a slow military buildup and massive mobilization campaign, after treaty with Hitler was signed. He knew of Hitler's plans to attack UK, USA. He was preparing a massive army to "liberate" Europe under communism. He was going to do that when German armies landed in UK, and slanted the attack on Nazi Germany for July 1941.

No wonder why when Germany attacked, Soviets were caught by surprise. 5 million troops became prisoners. 5000 planes destroyed. 1000 tanks captured. Heavy artillery, howitzers, TRAINS filled with ammuinition, TANKS ON TRAINS ready to roll into Germany - clear indication that Stalin prepared an invasion. A great book proving this, with pictures is written by a former Soviet high intelligence GRU agent Suvorov, in his book "Ledokol" or "Icebreaker". When you see Soviet photos of hundreds of tanks waiting on train tracks, howitzer units (meant for attacks, not defense), thousands of long-range aircraft, paratrooper units for behind enemy lines campaign - you know the real intentions.

If he managed to attack first, today Europe would be Soviet Union from France in the west, Italy, Serbia in the south.

Or, even better, if Hitler and Stalin managed to get on even terms and become allies, which never materialized because they didnt trust each other - today we would be living in a dictatorship for sure.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Dopey I think this is incorrect, there were Russian rail systems, but they were different specs than the German ones, so everything being transported needed to be unloaded and then reloaded onto different trains. I might be wrong.

The problem is they didn't always overlap in areas they would have needed to get supplies to quickly, so just transfering stuff to a different train wouldn't have always been guranteed. If they were going to push through western Germany and into France they would have to make sure that wasn't going to be an issue. I'm not saying they couldn't make some new connecting lines quickly and overcome this, but how much focus do you put on that while you have the U.S., U.K., and France fighting you?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Alright, I'll stop being a dick because I am feeling very good today so I'll post. Basically, there was no way Russia was going to sweep through the entire Europe. Earlier setbacks on the Eastern Front killed 11 million troops, and injured millions of other soldiers for a long time. By the time Russians met Americans in Central Germany, it was about 2-4 million Soviet troops versus 5-6 million Allied forces. Soviets were desperately short on resources, supplies, and were facing a ruined country at home. Allies, however, only destroyed 106 Nazi divisions (as compared to 600+ by Soviets), so they held advantage at that point, in manpower, supplies, arms and support from other countries. Stalin would have never defeated Allies at that point. But they would have not attacked either. When Allies landed in France and Italy, Stalin already called it publicly that he lost the war. Why? Turns out, in 1939, Soviet Union started a slow military buildup and massive mobilization campaign, after treaty with Hitler was signed. He knew of Hitler's plans to attack UK, USA. He was preparing a massive army to "liberate" Europe under communism. He was going to do that when German armies landed in UK, and slanted the attack on Nazi Germany for July 1941. No wonder why when Germany attacked, Soviets were caught by surprise. 5 million troops became prisoners. 5000 planes destroyed. 1000 tanks captured. Heavy artillery, howitzers, TRAINS filled with ammuinition, TANKS ON TRAINS ready to roll into Germany - clear indication that Stalin prepared an invasion. A great book proving this, with pictures is written by a former Soviet high intelligence GRU agent Suvorov, in his book "Ledokol" or "Icebreaker". When you see Soviet photos of hundreds of tanks waiting on train tracks, howitzer units (meant for attacks, not defense), thousands of long-range aircraft, paratrooper units for behind enemy lines campaign - you know the real intentions. If he managed to attack first, today Europe would be Soviet Union from France in the west, Italy, Serbia in the south. Or, even better, if Hitler and Stalin managed to get on even terms and become allies, which never materialized because they didnt trust each other - today we would be living in a dictatorship for sure.

Interesting...I'll have to look that up...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Interesting...I'll have to look that up...

In 1930s, German military officers received training in Soviet Union and weaponry, because they were forbidden to build arms on their own territory ;-) And then the Western investments in Nazi election campaigns kicked in! Everyone helped the Nazis, even some Arabs! And Zionists ... my ... everyone loved Nazis!

Stalin wanted to arm the Nazi machine to defeat his enemies in the West, so that he could later enter as "liberator". Trust me, 5 million plus Soviet troops sitting right at the German border armed to the teeth ready to attack is quite a big border guard ;-) Thats why Soviets suffered setbacks early in the war - they lost most of the factories, ammuinition, tanks, and defense lines

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Interesting...I'll have to look that up...

In 1930s, German military officers received training in Soviet Union and weaponry, because they were forbidden to build arms on their own territory ;-) And then the Western investments in Nazi election campaigns kicked in! Everyone helped the Nazis, even some Arabs! And Zionists ... my ... everyone loved Nazis!

Stalin wanted to arm the Nazi machine to defeat his enemies in the West, so that he could later enter as "liberator". Trust me, 5 million plus Soviet troops sitting right at the German border armed to the teeth ready to attack is quite a big border guard ;-) Thats why Soviets suffered setbacks early in the war - they lost most of the factories, ammuinition, tanks, and defense lines

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Interesting...I'll have to look that up...

In 1930s, German military officers received training in Soviet Union and weaponry, because they were forbidden to build arms on their own territory ;-) And then the Western investments in Nazi election campaigns kicked in! Everyone helped the Nazis, even some Arabs! And Zionists ... my ... everyone loved Nazis!

Stalin wanted to arm the Nazi machine to defeat his enemies in the West, so that he could later enter as "liberator". Trust me, 5 million plus Soviet troops sitting right at the German border armed to the teeth ready to attack is quite a big border guard ;-) Thats why Soviets suffered setbacks early in the war - they lost most of the factories, ammuinition, tanks, and defense lines

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Interesting...I'll have to look that up...

In 1930s, German military officers received training in Soviet Union and weaponry, because they were forbidden to build arms on their own territory ;-) And then the Western investments in Nazi election campaigns kicked in! Everyone helped the Nazis, even some Arabs! And Zionists ... my ... everyone loved Nazis!

Stalin wanted to arm the Nazi machine to defeat his enemies in the West, so that he could later enter as "liberator". Trust me, 5 million plus Soviet troops sitting right at the German border armed to the teeth ready to attack is quite a big border guard ;-) Thats why Soviets suffered setbacks early in the war - they lost most of the factories, ammuinition, tanks, and defense lines

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture