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Dopey
Palestinian Pornstar



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Ramallah

quote:
Originally posted by shaolin_Z
Actually no, it reflects a profound ignorance of the subject at hand.



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Originally posted by Cyrus King
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quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

Old Post Jan-31-2007 23:30  Palestine
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



In 10 minutes you can google the blueprints on building a dirty bomb involving enriched uranium. There are books on this. All you need is a weapons building expert and some uranium. I am surprised they havent developed a nuclear weapon yet, though I suspect they're getting there. If a group of radicals gets a hand on these, or worse, takes control over a country that has nukes ... well ... may Lord have mercy on our souls. Though the only nations that have used uranium-based weapons, like nuclear bombs and uranium-tipped weapons have been Americans, British and such. Well well well ... there are over 700 tons of uranium laying around in the Gulf region from the Gulf War of 1991. So many Iraqi children have developed cancers, died as a result. And American war veterans as well. I think thats the WMDs that Americans are trying to find


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Old Post Feb-01-2007 00:28  Canada
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Dopey
Palestinian Pornstar



Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Ramallah

I smell a repeat of 1981, no way are the Israelis going to allow this.


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quote:
Originally posted by Cyrus King
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quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
I hardly if ever acknowledge sarcasm from a person I dont know because I ran into serious problems on an undisclosed buying website before.

Old Post Feb-01-2007 20:33  Palestine
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XaNaX
I <3 global warming



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: 1000 Miles too far North

I don't see what Iran hopes to achieve by building a bomb. This is a weapon that they can never actually use for any reason.

If Israel invades Iran and they use the nuclear bomb on Israel in retaliation the Isralis will just strike Iran with their own more powerful, more advanced weapons.

If Iran were ever to use the weapon offensively against any ally of the USA or to stop a US invasion of Iran they would quickly and painfully learn the difference between the fission bomb they have and the thermonuclear weapons we have. One or two SSBNs have enough warheads to wipe out anything of value in Iran.

The use of such a weapon by any country would bring about swift and massive retaliation and would mean the end of their country and government as they know it.

Old Post Feb-01-2007 20:59  United States
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

quote:
Originally posted by XaNaX
I don't see what Iran hopes to achieve by building a bomb. This is a weapon that they can never actually use for any reason.



This is all talk,there is no evidence anywhere that shows they are making a nuclear bomb.



quote:
If Iran were ever to use the weapon offensively against any ally of the USA or to stop a US invasion of Iran they would quickly and painfully learn the difference between the fission bomb they have and the thermonuclear weapons we have. One or two SSBNs have enough warheads to wipe out anything of value in Iran.



They are not going after anybody ffs,if anything U.S is the one that is keep pushing their buttons to get some sort of reaction out of them.


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 02:47 
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Dopey
I smell a repeat of 1981, no way are the Israelis going to allow this.


Israel wont do fuck all,after their so called success in Lebenon I doubt they ll be stupid enough to pull another one like that.


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 02:48 
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

This sabre-rattling Bush is doing with Iran is all too familiar. I wonder why intelligence reports are being delayed to supposedly show certain links with Iran?:

quote:
The Bush administration has postponed plans to offer public details of its charges of Iranian meddling inside Iraq amid internal divisions over the strength of the evidence, U.S. officials said.

U.S. officials promised last week to provide evidence of Iranian activities that led President Bush to announce Jan. 10 that U.S. forces would begin taking the offensive against Iranian agents who threatened Americans.

But some officials in Washington are concerned that some of the material may be inconclusive and that other data cannot be released without jeopardizing intelligence sources and methods. They want to avoid repeating the embarrassment that followed the March 2003 invasion of Iraq, when it became clear that information the administration cited to justify the war was incorrect, said the officials, who described the internal discussions on condition of anonymity.

"We don't want a repeat of the situation we had when [then-Secretary of State] Colin L. Powell went before the United Nations," said one U.S. official, referring to Powell's 2003 presentation on then-Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's unconventional weapons program that relied on evidence later found to be false. "People are going to be skeptical."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...-home-headlines


A recent attack that was originally being blamed on Iranian influence is likely something quite different:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,249403,00.html

Just remember something:

quote:
the consensus within the intelligence community in 2002 [was:] that Iraq's ties with Al Qaeda were inconsequential; that its nuclear weapons program was minimal at best; and that its chemical and biological weapons programs, which had yielded significant stocks of dangerous weapons in the past, may or may not have been ongoing -

http://www.tnr.com/docprint.mhtml?i...rmanjudis063003


But that didn't stop us looking, which is fine in of itself:

quote:
"We knew nothing about what was going on in Iraq," a CIA official recalled. "We were way behind the eight ball. We had to look under every rock." Wilson, too, occasionally flew overseas to monitor operations. She also went to Jordan to work with Jordanian intelligence officials who had intercepted a shipment of aluminum tubes heading to Iraq that CIA analysts were claiming--wrongly--were for a nuclear weapons program. (The analysts rolled over the government's top nuclear experts, who had concluded the tubes were not destined for a nuclear program.)

The JTFI found nothing. The few scientists it managed to reach insisted Saddam had no WMD programs. Task force officers sent reports detailing the denials into the CIA bureaucracy. The defectors were duds--fabricators and embellishers. (JTFI officials came to suspect that some had been sent their way by Ahmad Chalabi's Iraqi National Congress, an exile group that desired a US invasion of Iraq.) The results were frustrating for the officers. Were they not doing their job well enough--or did Saddam not have an arsenal of unconventional weapons? Valerie Wilson and other JTFI officers were almost too overwhelmed to consider the possibility that their small number of operations was, in a way, coming up with the correct answer: There was no intelligence to find on Saddam's WMDs because the weapons did not exist. Still, she and her colleagues kept looking. (She also assisted operations involving Iran and WMDs.)

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060918/corn


By "she", Corn means Valerie Plame - the CIA covert operative that was deliberately outed by Cheney, Rove, and Libby.

But all this didn't stop Bush and the neocons circumventing our intelligence community:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Stor...,999737,00.html

nor did it stop them from invading:

http://www.cs.umass.edu/~immerman/p...houtADoubt.html

Major circumvention:

quote:
Most remarkably, on September 16, 2002, two days before the CIA was to produce its postponed assessment, Mr Feith's cell went directly to the White House and gave an alternative briefing to Vice-President Dick Cheney's chief of staff [Scooter Libby], and to the National Security Adviser Condoleezza Rice's deputy [Stephen Hadley].

The briefing contained the section alleging "fundamental problems" with CIA intelligence-gathering. It also gave a detailed breakdown of the alleged meeting between [9/11 hijacker Mohammed ]Atta and an Iraqi agent [in Prague].

The following week, senior Bush officials made confident statements on the existence of a link between Saddam and al-Qa'eda. Mr Tenet would learn of the secret briefing only in March 2004.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/mai.../ixnewstop.html


And BTW, many of those same neocon players that started their little "Office of Special Plans" to circumvent intelligence? Well, please don't think they are new at this game:

quote:
Air Force Intelligence was estimating that Soviets would deploy 500 intercontinental ballistic missiles by the early '60s. The intelligence branch of the Strategic Air Command figured the Soviets would, or might already, have 1,000 or more.

...The CIA, on the other hand, calculated the number at about 50.

(By the time John F. Kennedy took office in 1961, photos from spy satellites revealed that the Soviets had just four ICBMs.)

http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?a...rint&id=2073238


Back in the Nixon years, Tricky Dick was setting up a policy of detainment with the Soviets. Well these cute little neocons didn't like that much, so they "took matters in their own hands":

http://www.slate.com/toolbar.aspx?a...rint&id=2073238
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...MNG62FDUGL1.DTL

Notice any familiar names there? Rummy? Cheney? Wolfowitz? Doug Feith and Richard Perle. Except back then they weren't called "Office of Special Plans. They called themselves "Team B". And back then they're policy was to engage the Soviets in a nuclear fucking war.

No, I'm not fucking kidding. They really believed that was the answer.

Just as they believed the answer to their problems nowadays was to divert attention away from al Qaeda and bin Laden and invade Iraq. But you see, Iraq is part of a larger picture. And just like they were so very, very wrong about their claims of WMDs on Iraq, so too were they so incredibly fucking wrong about their claims against the Soviets:

quote:
In 1978, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence found that the selection of Team B members yielded a flawed composition of political views and biases. Consequently, the Team B analysis was deemed a gross exaggeration and completely inaccurate.

http://www.newamericanstrategies.or...fldArticleID=62


Did everyone get that line? Here, have another look:

quote:
Consequently, the Team B analysis was deemed a gross exaggeration and completely inaccurate.


Here's another report from the same SFGate article on how far out of bounds Team B was:

quote:
In retrospect, and with the Team B report and records now largely declassified, it is possible to see that virtually all of Team B's criticisms ... proved to be wrong," Raymond Garthoff, a former U.S. ambassador to Bulgaria, wrote in a paper for the CIA's Center for the Study of Intelligence [in 2002]. "On several important specific points it wrongly criticized and 'corrected' the official estimates, always in the direction of enlarging the impression of danger and threat."


"Always in the direction of enlarging the impression of danger and threat."

C'mon, kids, repeat after me:

"Always in the direction of enlarging the impression of danger and threat."

Sounding familiar yet? Kinda eery and coincidental?

Well, that brings us back to Iran. Don't think for a second this "Team B", uhh I mean "Office of Special Plans" run by the same bang-up crew who fucked with our Iraqi intelligence doesn't have a plan for Iran all along:

quote:
War with Iran has been in the works for the past five years, shaped in almost complete secrecy by a small group of senior Pentagon officials attached to the Office of Special Plans. The man who created the OSP was Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense for policy. A former Middle East specialist on the National Security Council in the Reagan administration, Feith had long urged Israel to secure its borders in the Middle East by attacking Iraq and Iran. After Bush's election, Feith went to work to make that vision a reality, putting together a team of neoconservative hawks determined to drive the U.S. to attack Tehran. Before Bush had been in office a year, Feith's team had arranged a covert meeting in Rome with a group of Iranians to discuss their clandestine help. . . .

In the end, the work of Franklin and the other members of Feith's secret office had the desired effect. Working behind the scenes, the members of the Office of Special Plans succeeded in setting the United States on the path to all-out war with Iran.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politic..._next_war/print


Here's some more:

quote:
Leading the charge against Iran is [American Enterprise Institute]'s Michael Ledeen, perhaps best known for setting in motion the US-Israeli arms deal with Iran in the mid-1980s that became known as Iran/contra. Supporting Ledeen's position are two other AEI fellows: Richard Perle, the ringleader of the neocons and a former member of the Pentagon's Defense Policy Board, and David Frum, a Weekly Standard contributing editor and the former White House speechwriter who coined the phrase "axis of evil." In their new book, An End to Evil, Perle and Frum call for a covert operation to "overthrow the terrorist mullahs of Iran." Speaking to retired US intelligence officers in McLean, Virginia, in January, Ledeen called Iran the "throbbing heart of terrorism" and urged the Bush Administration to support revolutionary change. "Tehran," he said, "is a city just waiting for us." . . .

http://www.thenation.com/docprint.m...0412&s=dreyfuss


Ya just gotta love these boys, don't cha?

But I want you to keep in mind something - nothing will stop Bush from invading Iran, evidence be damned. I am more and more convinced of that everyday. The confrontation is not something he is doing reluctantly - this is and has been planned for some time, much in the same manner as they planned on going after Iraq for some time. Say what you want about this group being nothing shy of delusional, insane, maniacal, whatever. The evidence is there that they attempted long and hard to do this before, and they've already succeeded with Iraq. Nothing tells me that any window of opportunity will allow them to do it again. But what's worse, they don't really see any windows this time.

So they're bringing their fucking sledgehammers, busting out a fucking hole in the wall and creating one instead.

Finally, let me turn your attention back to the outed CIA covert officer, Valerie Plame who's job was to investigate WMD proliferation. As was mentioned above, she investigated WMDs in Iraq and came up very empty.

Iraqi wasn't her only beat:

quote:
MSNBC has learned new information about the damage caused by the White House leaks.

Intelligence sources say Valerie Wilson was part of an operation three years ago tracking the proliferation of nuclear weapons material into Iran. And the sources allege that when Mrs. Wilson’s cover was blown, the administration’s ability to track Iran’s nuclear ambitions was damaged as well.

http://movies.crooksandliars.com/HB...huster-Iran.wmv

Originally reported by Raw Story
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2005/O...ng_on_0213.html
, and later confirmed by MSNBC


Steve Clemons of the Washington Note writes:

quote:
"According to some inside the intel arena, Valerie Wilson's work had a lot to do with monitoring Iran's nuclear weapons appetite and capabilities and possibly helped feed Iran nuclear technology junk that could distract and complicate Iran's weapons program efforts. If true, this is quite consistent with the Iran Chapter" in James Risen's new book, State of War: The Secret History of the C.I.A. and the Bush Administration, Free Press (January 3, 2006) ISBN 0743270665.

"But if this account of Plame-Wilson's activities is true, those who exposed Valerie Plame Wilson helped undermine American national security in much more major ways that haven't yet been disclosed."

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.ph...lame#Iran_Intel


Cheney got a nice twofer here - expose a CIA operative for revenge toward her husband speaking out against the lack of evidence purported by this Administration on Saddam's nuke capability, and then damage any future intelligence on Iran that would run counter to any claims this neocon Administration makes its case towards.

There is absolutely no reason to trust what this Administration says about Iran at this point. It's why Congress, including a healthy number of Republicans are telling Bush not to even think about attacking Iran in any manner without Congressional approval. They don't trust him any more than the majority of the public. Given Bush and this neocon Administration's track record, I see no reason why anyone should.

(big h/t to occam's hatchet for much of this info.)


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 05:27  United States
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ogvh5150
Formula 1 Addict



Registered: Aug 2003
Location: F1 2008 Red Bull Racing/BMW Sauber

They'll just keep repeating that Ahmadinejad wants to wipe Israel off the map, over and over again so the American gov't will spend more money in the region by way of troops and non-competing bids.

It's about money and starting another Cold War.

People forget that Iran had a nuclear program prior to the 1980's with help of the US.




But it's worse than that. Deep in the bowels of the CIA, someone must be nervously, but very privately, wondering: "Whatever happened to those nuclear blueprints we gave to the Iranians?"

The story dates back to the Clinton administration and February 2000, when one frightened Russian scientist walked Vienna's winter streets. The Russian had good reason to be afraid. He was walking around Vienna with blueprints for a nuclear bomb.

To be precise, he was carrying technical designs for a TBA 480 high-voltage block, otherwise known as a "firing set", for a Russian-designed nuclear weapon. He held in his hands the knowledge needed to create a perfect implosion that could trigger a nuclear chain reaction inside a small spherical core. It was one of the greatest engineering secrets in the world, providing the solution to one of a handful of problems that separated nuclear powers such as the United States and Russia from rogue countries such as Iran that were desperate to join the nuclear club but had so far fallen short.
George Bush insists that Iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons. So why, six years ago, did the CIA give the Iranians blueprints to build a bomb?


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 06:03 
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

Despite how they may have retrieved 'the plans', it doesn't necessarily mean they now just go out and build one.
Heck, I could probably find plans for a plane but that doesn't mean I have the equipment and/or materials to build it.
It's the materials that are the key, not the plans.


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 12:37  Canada
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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Despite how they may have retrieved 'the plans', it doesn't necessarily mean they now just go out and build one.




First of all there is no proof of them making any weapons,and even if they are,it would be more for self protection,they ae not gonna go bomb the region.


why are you ok with Israel,Pakistan,India having nukes?you feel like they are safe and will never use it?


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 16:13 
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Zild
Ten City



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: San Antonio, US : TXTA #156

Why can't they have nukes for the same reason other countries have nukes? Deterrence.


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Old Post Feb-02-2007 17:12  United States
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pmoisse
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Amsterdam, NL (formerly Montreal QC)

quote:
Originally posted by XaNaX
I don't see what Iran hopes to achieve by building a bomb. This is a weapon that they can never actually use for any reason.


Only one country has ever used atomic weapons, yet several have built them (and made them more deadly).

If they are building one, I think it's for the "prestige" so to speak of being able to thumb their nose at Israel and the US and say that they're not the only game in town.

Old Post Feb-02-2007 17:21  Canada
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