granted humans are NOT the only cause, HOWEVER it is clear we are one of the most major causes, and have the ability to slow Global Warming down.

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quote:

Originally posted by SuperJimbo You are not a unique and beautiful snowflake, no matter how many guestlists you put yourself on.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur I enjoy pulling statistics out of my ass to back up my argument too. 99% of the world's dentists agree that you're full of shit. Prove me wrong.

You're right...if I wasn't full of shit I would cease to exist. In order to maintain life one must consume food. Food than turns into waste(shit). Therefore, I am full of shit.

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Time to play more devil's advocate!



While it is very hard to get an accurate reading on what the temperatures were like way back then, but this graph suggest to me that there were fluctuations in the mean global temperature.

Points for thought
-granted, last 50 yrs has seen a greater fluctuation (getting warmer). But think in long terms. 50 yrs is a blip in billions of yrs that the earth existed in the universe

-given that the earth's temperature fluctuations, is this last 50 yrs just something that the earth does? (who knows how many times the earth's temperature rose more than 1 degrees celsius and then dropped in its billions of yrs of existence?)

-at least according to this graph, there is a change in only 1 degrees Celsius on avg. Is our ecosystem that fragile that slight change is mucking everything up? Mother Nature isn't very resillient if that is the case.

Just a few thoughts

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

quote:

Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

quote:

Originally posted by slingshot You're right...if I wasn't full of shit I would cease to exist. In order to maintain life one must consume food. Food than turns into waste(shit). Therefore, I am full of shit.

Thanks for ruining my lunch Ryan

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

quote:

Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

quote:

Originally posted by MKpacha try reading... An Inconvenient Truth, or if that's too much for you, watch the movie.

Thanks, but the only thing anyone can say with a good degree of certainty is that our understanding of weather, climate, and how it all ties into the grand scheme of things on Earth is shady at best. Atmosphere, plate tectonics, and other fluid dynamics are still considered to be 'chaos systems' which is a nice scientific way of saying "we don't know how the fuck these things operate at all, but we're sure it's not random". I'm not saying global warming is not happening. And I'm agreeing that CO2 emissions are increasing. And both are not good for us. But tying the two together as cause-and-effect without truly understanding how things work is not a sound scientific method. Furthermore, proving that CO2 emissions contribute to global warming, and extrapolating from that that CO2 is causing global warming is quite a stretch. For all we know, a million other things could be contributing to global warming, so CO2 emissions or no CO2 emissions, our planet could still get warmer and we'll still go into another Ice Age. If the first Ice Age happened without any human involvement, I don't find it that hard to believe that humans played only a minuscule part in the coming of the second one.

I'm on both sides of the issue here. I'm quite certain polluting our air is not a good idea, particularly because I breathe it, but I also disagree with "hey let's reduce our CO2 emissions, and everything will be fine and dandy".

Lastly, this thread is going to be chalk full appeals to authority and statistics that were made up on the spot (as is already happening), so unless you (and I mean everyone who is going to pick a side and argue heartily for it) provide some credible proofs and sources of your "facts", I'm going to refute each argument with "God says you're wrong, so you're wrong" and it'll hold just as much water as your argument. And since I'm on both sides of the fence, I'll have no less of a problem saying that to people who defend the theory than as the people who refute it.

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quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Time to play more devil's advocate! While it is very hard to get an accurate reading on what the temperatures were like way back then, but this graph suggest to me that there were fluctuations in the mean global temperature. Points for thought -granted, last 50 yrs has seen a greater fluctuation (getting warmer). But think in long terms. 50 yrs is a blip in billions of yrs that the earth existed in the universe -given that the earth's temperature fluctuations, is this last 50 yrs just something that the earth does? (who knows how many times the earth's temperature rose more than 1 degrees celsius and then dropped in its billions of yrs of existence?) -at least according to this graph, there is a change in only 1 degrees Celsius on avg. Is our ecosystem that fragile that slight change is mucking everything up? Mother Nature isn't very resillient if that is the case. Just a few thoughts

Ahhh the infamous "hockey stick" chart. You pose some good questions. The hockey stick is further refuted here: http://www.friendsofscience.org/index.php?ide=3

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Excellent series of recent articles debunking the myth:


Statistics Needed-The Deniers part 1:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...9cd20bed2f6&k=0

Warming is real-and has benefits-part 2:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...7eeec46d1fc&k=0

The hurricane expert who stood up to UN junk science-part 3:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...31a1380121a&k=0

Polar scientists on thin ice-part 4:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...02b95c45dcf&k=0

The original denier: into the cold-part 5:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...9de085af353&k=0

The Sun moves climate change- part 6:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...f60aa332f1f&k=0

Will the Sun cool us?- part 7:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...e9eeb015777&k=0

The limits of predictability- part 8:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...07f1dee479f&k=0

Look to Mars for the truth on global warming- part 9:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...359a5c7f723&k=0

Limited role for CO2- part 10:
http://www.canada.com/nationalpost/...6e0f112aeb5&k=0

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Click Here

Now some serious stuff,

Watch the clip click here

quote:

Originally posted by Provocative_boi Click Here

Will Ferrell doing Bush is one of the BEST things EVER

Here are a couple of good articles about global warming. Though part is obviously at fault by humans, there is also alot of other factors which come into play. The sun is at one of it's most powerful points recorded right now, and this has a huge impact on all this warming. Anyways give it a them a read, might give you a different perspective on everything.

I believe alot of it is just theory and we are partly to blame but there is alot of natural factors that are making a significant uprise in temperatures aswell.


The Impossibility of Prediction

http://www.michaelcrichton.com/spee...complexity.html


PS Thanks Jem for hooking those up, sorry I haven't gotten back to you yet, been super busy. I appreaciate you sending them to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Thanks, but the only thing anyone can say with a good degree of certainty is that our understanding of weather, climate, and how it all ties into the grand scheme of things on Earth is shady at best. Atmosphere, plate tectonics, and other fluid dynamics are still considered to be 'chaos systems' which is a nice scientific way of saying "we don't know how the fuck these things operate at all, but we're sure it's not random". I'm not saying global warming is not happening. And I'm agreeing that CO2 emissions are increasing. And both are not good for us. But tying the two together as cause-and-effect without truly understanding how things work is not a sound scientific method. Furthermore, proving that CO2 emissions contribute to global warming, and extrapolating from that that CO2 is causing global warming is quite a stretch. For all we know, a million other things could be contributing to global warming, so CO2 emissions or no CO2 emissions, our planet could still get warmer and we'll still go into another Ice Age. If the first Ice Age happened without any human involvement, I don't find it that hard to believe that humans played only a minuscule part in the coming of the second one.

Well said. My thoughts exactly.

Last edited by oldschool420 on Feb-13-2007 at 18:53