very informative, thanks guys, one other question i have is, what exactly do you use the laptop for while you are creating/playing your set (live or studio)?

is it like managing music, and loading it into your deck?

or something completely different all together?

I use it for Ableton only right now for DJ'ing, but I'll be switching to Mac 100% within the next few months when I buy Cubase 4.

I have nothing to complain about, only thing is, if you're using it to DJ and possibly to produce on it aswell when you get comfortable with it I would honestly recommend getting an external hard drive. 1 for each station, Mac HDD for DJ'ing/tracks then have all your samples/vst's ect on the external drive or vice versa just to manage space a bit and organize.

quote:

Originally posted by Batman84 very informative, thanks guys, one other question i have is, what exactly do you use the laptop for while you are creating/playing your set (live or studio)? is it like managing music, and loading it into your deck? or something completely different all together?

For me, I use my computer to do vinyl emulation with Serato Scratch Live. The hardware/software combination allows me to use mp3s on my computer with my cdjs and mixer.

Other people use laptops for programs like Traktor and Ableton Live. When it comes to software, and laptop choice, it all comes down to personal preference.

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and once you buy a mac....

your a bitch for life

This is comming from a PC owner + builder...

1. Macs are more stable than PCs in general. This isn't debateable.
2. Apple have addressed the grounding issue in their units, 99% of PC manufacturers haven't. What does this mean? Mac = clear audio signal. PC = a gamble, some do it some don't. It amazes me how many people don't even know about this. If you buy a PC laptop which has this problem (most do) you will have to run 100% off battery during your sets, as the AC adapter will put interference on your output. This will happen regardless of whether you use firewire, usb, pcmcia, whatever. If you need to do a set longer than 2 hours... good luck lol

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Originally posted by echosystm 2. Apple have addressed the grounding issue in their units, 99% of PC manufacturers haven't. What does this mean? Mac = clear audio signal. PC = a gamble, some do it some don't. It amazes me how many people don't even know about this. If you buy a PC laptop which has this problem (most do) you will have to run 100% off battery during your sets, as the AC adapter will put interference on your output. This will happen regardless of whether you use firewire, usb, pcmcia, whatever. If you need to do a set longer than 2 hours... good luck lol

isn't that easily solved with a ground loop isolator though?

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quote:

Originally posted by skip isn't that easily solved with a ground loop isolator though?

No

It's not a ground loop, its a dirty ground which everything inside the laptop uses as a reference. So, the problem is INSIDE the computer, if that makes sense. Typically you get little buzzing noises comming through the speakers when you move the mouse around or when the hard drive spins up/down etc.

There are a few ways around it: run on battery, use a DI box with ground lift on the output or take the ground pin out of your power supply (if you have a surge, you die). All three options are a pain in the ass. Get a Mac.

If the input sensitivity is low enough, it sometimes is workable, but most club systems are pretty high.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm No It's not a ground loop, its a dirty ground which everything inside the laptop uses as a reference. So, the problem is INSIDE the computer, if that makes sense. Typically you get little buzzing noises comming through the speakers when you move the mouse around or when the hard drive spins up/down etc. There are a few ways around it: run on battery, use a DI box with ground lift on the output or take the ground pin out of your power supply (if you have a surge, you die). All three options are a pain in the ass. Get a Mac. If the input sensitivity is low enough, it sometimes is workable, but most club systems are pretty high.

i always thought that a ground loop isolator and an external sound card would solve it. dunno then as i've never had that problem as i've never had a laptop.

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quote:

Originally posted by skip i always thought that a ground loop isolator and an external sound card would solve it. dunno then as i've never had that problem as i've never had a laptop.

No, think about it.

Everything inside the computer uses one ground right? In computers, circuits use the ground as a reference (for zero i assume). Now, imagine there is noise on that reference, "zero" won't be zero anymore, it will be like 0.1 :P

What does that mean? It means any data going through USB/Firewire/PCMCIA whatever else will all have a dirty reference, so instead of having voltages in the signal going through like 5v 0v 0v 0v 5v 5v 12v 5v 0v, you'll have 5v 0.1v 0.2v 0.01v 5v 5v 12v 5v 0.3v etc. That's where you get noise and thers not really much you can do about it. The ground lift DI box option rarely works well.

Iv got a ground loop isolator to fix the problem with my laptop, although sometimes it lets of pops through my speakers (this is because its a cheap $20 quick fix) its silent.
If you want you can buy third party power supplies for your laptop and that should fix the problem. Iv also got an old toshiba laptop thats about 4 years old. Its not exactly fast enough for what I need but that power supply is perfect.

In short-
PCs can have good power supplies, but most companies just throw you cheap ones since most customers don't care.

Why no linux?
Free mixing software all round!

Get what makes you and your wallet happy.

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Macs aren't quite as stable as people try to say they are. I have had a full on kernel panic (crash) with my Macbook twice now since August. Both times, I think I was just browsing the web (and not mixing).

During my first gig, I did have Torq crash, but luckily it's designed so that when it crashes the song keeps playing; just popped in an actual CD in my other CDJ, mixed into it, and restarted the app.

When a full kernel panic happens though, it's a whole lot prettier and less startling than a BSOD is on Windows; the screen dims and this shows up:



Most common reasons for a kernel panic.

They are still very stable compared to PCs, but they're not god; they're going to mess up every now and then.

Last edited by ill0gical0ne on Feb-22-2007 at 13:50

True... but OS X is based on a MUCH better foundation (BSD Unix) then windows is. Windows NT was originally based on VMS (also an incredibly stable, though antiquated, OS). But with all the cruft that microsoft has shoved into Windows, it's a bloated disaster (especially Vista).

Apple did the right thing with OS X. They essentially threw away their old OS, and started with a new one. Added some backward compatability (Classic Mode) to it, and said "this is how it's gonna be". Microsoft still has remnants from the 1980's in Windows, and it's showed with the disaster that is Vista. It took them 5 years to make a prettier interface and a security model that prompts the user every 5 minutes.

The stability aspect of Mac's comes from the fact that Apple has complete control over both the hardware AND the operating system. They only need to support what they provide in their hardware, and they can test it and ensure a higher level of quality than windows running on an unknown brand PC.

That being said, XP run on quality components is not unstable. I've never had my work machine BSOD, not once. But it has been infected with a worm I have had my Mac at home lockup, but it's only happened VERY rarely, usually when I was doing something with third party hardware.

I also have found that OS X really doesn't get "cluttered" over time. With all of my Windows installations, over time you really just need to reformat and reinstall because of all the crap that gets littered around the file system and registry. That doesn't seem to happen nearly as much with OS X (there is no registry, and applications are pretty much self contained).

quote:

Originally posted by ill0gical0ne Macs aren't quite as stable as people try to say they are. I have had a full on kernel panic (crash) with my Macbook twice now since August. Both times, I think I was just browsing the web (and not mixing). During my first gig, I did have Torq crash, but luckily it's designed so that when it crashes the song keeps playing; just popped in an actual CD in my other CDJ, mixed into it, and restarted the app. When a full kernel panic happens though, it's a whole lot prettier and less startling than a BSOD is on Windows; the screen dims and this shows up: Most common reasons for a kernel panic. They are still very stable compared to PCs, but they're not god; they're going to mess up every now and then.