quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Hehe, it was obviously a dumb ass who believes in a god. EDIT: Aaa! Before you flip out, I'm not refering to you there.

Alright, maybe this will help you understand:



So the flow chart for science is more or less correct, so I won't be nitpicky there.

The flow chart you have for faith there is just simply stupid and has a bunch of errors. First of all, the title should be, idiocy, or something along those lines. Now, I circled the flaws in the chart, under the poor assumption that it decribes faith to being with, so it should be easier to follow now

1. Only a idiot completely unfamiliar with how religious faith works, at least when it comes to the three main monotheistic faith, would have that as the first state in the flow chart. The first state should be examining or studying religious text X.
   
2. Any intelleigent person, after step 1, in step 2 would eigther abandon "idea" Y in religion X, religion X altogether, or would reinterpret it since that's obviously not what it means. Plus, it's not science, so I'm not even sure why that bubbles there.
   
3. Ok, anyone who gets to step three after the first two is simply stupid and irrational.
   

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Mar-03-2007 at 05:45

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Alright, maybe this will help you understand: So the flow chart for science is more or less correct, so I won't be nitpicky there. The flow chart you have for faith there is just simply stupid and has a bunch of errors. First of all, the title should be, idiocy, or something along those lines. Now, I circled the flaws in the chart, under the poor assumption that it decribes faith to being with, so it should be easier to follow now Only a idiot completely unfamiliar with how religious faith works, at least when it comes to the three main monotheistic faith, would have that as the first state in the flow chart. The first state should be examining or studying religious text X. Any intelleigent person, after step 1, in step 2 would eigther abandon "idea" Y in religion X, religion X altogether, or would reinterpret it since that's obviously not what it means. Plus, it's not science, so I'm not even sure why that bubbles there. Ok, anyone who gets to step three after the first two is simply stupid and irrational. So congratulations, you just made a flow chart for how a stupid person thinks, and it's doesn't have jack to do with informed and intelligent faith [edit: complemented by some form of reason, not contradicting it], an alien concept to you I'm sure. So the flow chart is flawed at every step. Now you understand why I said whoever made the chart is a dumbass? Well, at the very least, pretty ignorant.

But then again, didn't they supposedly come into existence before the texts ? So in that case the flow chart would be valid, only it would need the insertion of the creation and study of the text. In the beginning though faith does work to a great extent well by using faith.

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quote:

Orbax At that point you kind of crossed the rubicon and you might as well lay siege to Rome

quote:

Originally posted by venomX But then again, didn't they supposedly come into existence before the texts ? So in that case the flow chart would be valid, only it would need the insertion of the creation and study of the text. In the beginning though faith does work to a great extent well by using faith.

Actually, I'm not sure about Judaism since it's so old, Chritianity, yes, a good 3 centuries or so after Christ, Islam, no, it was transcribed during Muhammads time.

Well, the flow chart is still wrong, unless the person in question is a complete idiot (i.e. the person it applies to). And yes, the element of faith WILL always be involved in religion, it's not science. It's not like you can't have critical thought and faith at the same time. It's actually quite a challenge, because you also have to be critical of your faith, and the very concept itself, assuming you're [EDIT: lol, I forgot to add "not" ] interested in fooling yourself or being naive.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Mar-03-2007 at 09:04

Being an atheist, I must say that comparison is pretty inaccurate, both for science and faith.

Regarding faith, for example, it takes for granted the stereotype that religions don't evolve/change. If that were true, you certainly wouldn't have as many sects as you see today, and that's just the most obvious flaw.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lira Being an atheist, I must say that comparison is pretty inaccurate, both for science and faith. Regarding faith, for example, it takes for granted the stereotype that religions don't evolve/change. If that were true, you certainly wouldn't have as many sects as you see today, and that's just the most obvious flaw.

Yeah, that's true. But I chose not to comment on the flow chart for science and be nitpicky. But you're right.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Being an apprentice scientist myself I can laugh. Althought I do keep in mind that in my encounters with other apprentice and master scientists that there is quite a bit of room for faith and science to coexist.

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Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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quote:

Originally posted by Zild Being an apprentice scientist myself I can laugh. Althought I do keep in mind that in my encounters with other apprentice and master scientists that there is quite a bit of room for faith and science to coexist.

Yeah, I don't know why some people find that so hard to comprehend.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

I understand where they are coming from, being a devil worshipper myself, however they cross over into the hypocrite zone the moment they say that others opinions and beliefs are inherently wrong.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

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