quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller What a load of crap. America is the cause of all insurgency. If they weren't in Iraq nothing of that would ever happen.

If Americans weren't in Iraq, the shias would have found themselves under the meat grinder of Saddam's half brother. Which scenario is better, now go figure.

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Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M If Americans weren't in Iraq, the shias would have found themselves under the meat grinder of Saddam's half brother. Which scenario is better, now go figure.

There wouldn't have been 26k or whatever people killed just because of it's fun for Bush to be there.

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller There wouldn't have been 26k or whatever people killed just because of it's fun for Bush to be there.

I think the estimated # of deaths in the Saddam regime are a lot more. The point is, people would still have died. Maybe more, and the Sunnis probably would have been spared.

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Download and review ! Omega_M - In the Mix (Beta Version)

Originally posted by twilightki : It feels like something you'd listen to at 4 in the morning, or listen to in your car while you're going in a tunnel.

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller What a load of crap. America is the cause of all insurgency. If they weren't in Iraq nothing of that would ever happen.

You must of forgotten about the Shiite and Kurdish insurgencies of the 1980's and 90's under SADDAM.

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quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M I think the estimated # of deaths in the Saddam regime are a lot more. The point is, people would still have died. Maybe more, and the Sunnis probably would have been spared.

All you have to do is watch the old videos where all the people are going nuts at the saddam rallies. Reminds me of Hitler and Mousilini type crowd insanity.

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quote:

Originally posted by Dopey you can bet Iran, if it happens, will be 1000% bloodier

and I know you would love that more then anyone else.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton America isn't destroying Iraq. The insurgents are.

+1

If only they could reign in their extremist Imams that cultivate a culture of fear without reprisals and death, they'd be much better off...

The liberal MSM wants to kowtow to our emotions based on pictures that say nothing.
We don't know the story behind those pictures.
I'm willing to bet that most of those pictures were caused by the local insurgents and warlords in a free-for-all, vying for power.
Oh sure we can make assumptions but why not the truth?

You ask, was it worth it.
It's a valid question but you're asking the wrong people.
Try asking the Iraqis women if they like being able to have the choice to go to school or not fear being stoned to death.
It's a huge win for civil liberties and universal human dignity where there were none before after 30+ years of tyrannical oppression.

I agree that it wasn't done 'perfectly' and without some shady, shadowy figures in the background; one would have to be a fool not to consider that in such an undertaking that was practically a beacon, calling, like vultures circling their prey.

There will be debate about this for many years and it will get (and is) ugly on all sides.
However, lets no confuse the situation either with images that, while tragic, don't give certainty about anything...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M If Americans weren't in Iraq, the shias would have found themselves under the meat grinder of Saddam's half brother. Which scenario is better, now go figure.

According to you, its better if we kill 'em than Saddam's brother, at least we can get some oil for our problems? LOL. Surely some violence is driven by insurgents, but Americans arent angels either. Yes, we kill kill kill for oil! Spread democracy ... by force! If you're an Iraqi journalist criticizing USA, there's no democracy for ya, you're dead man walking!

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton You must of forgotten about the Shiite and Kurdish insurgencies of the 1980's and 90's under SADDAM.

Ummm, you are forgetting that it was France, Germany, USA and other "allies" that funded, armed and upgraded the Iraqi killing machine in 1980s to wage wars and kill Iranians and its own people, using western chemical weapons. With Western approval until the Kuwaiti war. And these same shitbags like UK and USA governments blocked UN resolutions to stop Iraqi chemical attacks. Who's the bad guy for that? Whose fault was it really?

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Try asking the Iraqis women if they like being able to have the choice to go to school or not fear being stoned to death. It's a huge win for civil liberties and universal human dignity where there were none before after 30+ years of tyrannical oppression.

oh give me a fuckin break,you think any of that matters when there is absolutely no security in the country???

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton America isn't destroying Iraq. The insurgents are.

and what exaclty opened the doors for these insurgetns to go into Iraq in the first place?American occupation maybe?

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quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r The liberal MSM wants to kowtow to our emotions based on pictures that say nothing.

Judy Miller and Michael Gordon of the NYTimes?

WaPost editorial war cheerleading board?

John Solomon?

All those wonderful lapdog media bobbleheads who dared not question the Bush Administration post-911 until we were up to our ears in shit in Iraq?

All those lovely stories of Clinton's fucking blowjob and Gore's "internet" invention versus the Bush Administration's misleading evidence to take us into the biggest debacle in U.S. history?

Smear Boat wonders on John Kerry's record that was later cleared once he released all necessary forms (post election), versus this President's chickenshit false military time status, as well as VP's "I've got other things to do" 5 deferrment Cheney?

Hey, I hear ya brother. Gimme Powerline, Captain's Quarters, Weekly Standard, NYPost, National Review, Heritage, and the Moonie Times anyday over these librul characters!

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Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...