Well what makes their sampler unique is that is does the beat detection very very well, in hardware. That's not such a simple feat.

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Originally posted by Stu Cox I don't think RedSound have got anything particularly revolutionary in their sampler - it's simply the way they've decided to lay it out and the interface they've given it that seems quite popular, wouldn't be too hard to recreate. I'm actually in the process of building a digital sampler for my uni design project, not that it'll be particularly good lol - I had all sorts of ideas for it but I've left everything to the last minute and now haven't got time to implement loads of them!

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well what makes their sampler unique is that is does the beat detection very very well, in hardware. That's not such a simple feat.

Not meaning to split hairs, but I expect it's middleware (i.e. programmed into an embedded DSP) which is still tricky, but the DJM600/800/DNS1500 all do that too... yeah the RedSound's a lot smaller, but if you're talking about embedding it into a mixer then you've got more room to play with.

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Stu Cox |

Still if the work is already done, why reinvent the wheel?

It makes more sense to have it on the CDJ's. Otherwise you have to record your loop on the mixer, then mix into that from the orignal track, then mix the loop into the next track, etc.

The CDJ-800's already have this type of looping, it just doesn't work well enough and isn't configurable enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox Not meaning to split hairs, but I expect it's middleware (i.e. programmed into an embedded DSP) which is still tricky, but the DJM600/800/DNS1500 all do that too... yeah the RedSound's a lot smaller, but if you're talking about embedding it into a mixer then you've got more room to play with.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Still if the work is already done, why reinvent the wheel? It makes more sense to have it on the CDJ's. Otherwise you have to record your loop on the mixer, then mix into that from the orignal track, then mix the loop into the next track, etc. The CDJ-800's already have this type of looping, it just doesn't work well enough and isn't configurable enough.

Haha yeah sorry, I'm tired, we were talking about putting it in the CDJ weren't we. Replace "mixer" above with "CDJ" and change "DJM600/800/DNS1500" to "just about any CDJ" lol

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Stu Cox |

one feature I wish pioneer would add to their loops is the ability to set a loop, and have the track play normally until it hits that predefined loop then start looping.

sure I can save a loop to my hot cues and press for that to start at the right time, but it's not easy to get it right on, and only the CDJ1000mk3 and cmx3000 even let you save loops to hot cues.

Denons can do this can't they?

You can do it but it's a little bit awkward - set up your loop and get it looping, then and use the search button (<<) to rewind to the start of the track (searching with these buttons ignores the loop, i.e. it doesn't just rewind through the loop over and over again like if you rewind with the platter), but make sure you don't go past the start of the track if you've got autocue on cos it'll set your cue point there, thus messing up your loop!

Then play from the start as usual, with the loop still active (loop buttons both flashing away) - when it reaches the loop region, it'll just start looping.

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Stu Cox |

i use serato for my loops... you can zoom in and adjust the in/out points very easily. i love it! that's one of the main reasons i use serato along w/ my cdj's (1000mk3's). i'd reccomend serato and cdj200's for ya.

bisco

can i set a loop so on the cdj-200 that it loops 32 or 16 beats from the beginning AND then loop 32 or 16 beats from the end of the SAME track?

if not, then i think i'll go for the denon if it can do that. can anyone confirm that the dn-s3500 can do it?


thanks for everyone's replies.

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skip, just get the deck that you like the best as far as the most features you want....because looping on CDJs will always (mostly) come down to you manually adjusting the in or out points down by a frame or more make the loop sound right.

"seamless looping" still means you have to do some work - doesnt mean it does the work for you.

setting a 16 or 32 beat loop is TOO long.... why: if loop is too long, then it takes too much time for you hear how the loop restarts (about 10 seconds for 16 beats). with only 4 beats, i can set/edit/audition the loop in a matter of seconds. also, a track won't change much in 4 beats & makes for a better sounding loop. you have to hear a loop play 2-4 times before it is good to go, if it started off by a frame or two.

I sometimes set a loop on the incoming track, but NEVER set a loop to exit a track...because when you set a loop on the live track you have problems:

1. the first time you set the loop, there is a good chance the loopin/out points will be slightly off and there is obvious 'skipping'/error IN YOUR LIVE MIX until you fix it it...setting loops is best done in your headphones

2. the loop will play at a different BPM (because it's a loop and you dont know where the perfect frames fall)....now you have to go back and beatmatch again to bring in the next track & and your live track is stuck in a loop until you get matched - and people could notice that....

regards,
Patrick

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Last edited by DJ Z on Apr-12-2007 at 12:49

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Z skip, just get the deck that you like the best as far as the most features you want....because looping on CDJs will always (mostly) come down to you manually adjusting the in or out points down by a frame or more make the loop sound right. "seamless looping" still means you have to do some work - doesnt mean it does the work for you. setting a 16 or 32 beat loop is TOO long.... why: if loop is too long, then it takes too much time for you hear how the loop restarts (about 10 seconds for 16 beats). with only 4 beats, i can set/edit/audition the loop in a matter of seconds. also, a track won't change much in 4 beats & makes for a better sounding loop. you have to hear a loop play 2-4 times before it is good to go, if it started off by a frame or two. I sometimes set a loop on the incoming track, but NEVER set a loop to exit a track...because when you set a loop on the live track you have problems: 1. the first time you set the loop, there is a good chance the loopin/out points will be slightly off and there is obvious 'skipping'/error IN YOUR LIVE MIX until you fix it it...setting loops is best done in your headphones 2. the loop will play at a different BPM (because it's a loop and you dont know where the perfect frames fall)....now you have to go back and beatmatch again to bring in the next track & and your live track is stuck in a loop until you get matched - and people could notice that.... regards, Patrick

setting a 16 or 32 beat loop is definitely not too long. it's exactly what i want. i don't want the looping to mess up my phrasing. if i make a 4 beat loop it might get messed up. if i make a 32 beat loop it will most definitely not get messed up.
and i have no problems setting up a loop manually. i'd think it would be rather easy. just find the first beat of the track for example and the 33rd beat of the track and set the loop between those. shouldn't be that hard.
and i would really like to loop the ending of some tracks as some tracks have been edited so badly that the outro just isn't long enough for a smooth transition. also some tracks are produced like that too. and i would like to extend their intros/outros. i can't see anything wrong in that. and naturally i would set the ending loop to the track before i even bring it in (as i'll know that i want to extend the outro even before i play the track).
now i have to do all my looping on my computer and burn the tracks on cd and the play those as my cdjs don't have looping. i'd want to get rid of this process and do it with the cdjs as it would be much more flexible that way.

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quote:

Originally posted by skip setting a 16 or 32 beat loop is definitely not too long. it's exactly what i want. i don't want the looping to mess up my phrasing. if i make a 4 beat loop it might get messed up. if i make a 32 beat loop it will most definitely not get messed up.

Personally, I don't think that a 32 beat (8 bar) loop would sound that good cause if it's a loop from the intro then it would be building up towards the end of that phrase and then when it loops from the start, it would sound like something has been taken out of the track (which is exactly what has happened).

And this would apply to looping 32 beats from the outro of a tune as it gets towards the end of an 8 bar phrase it is dying down, and then when it loops it would sound like something has just been introduced.

Obvisouly this doesn't apply to every tune out there but I think you'll find that 1 bar and 2 bar loops are the norm.

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Originally posted by agentdansmith Personally, I don't think that a 32 beat (8 bar) loop would sound that good cause if it's a loop from the intro then it would be building up towards the end of that phrase and then when it loops from the start, it would sound like something has been taken out of the track (which is exactly what has happened). And this would apply to looping 32 beats from the outro of a tune as it gets towards the end of an 8 bar phrase it is dying down, and then when it loops it would sound like something has just been introduced. Obvisouly this doesn't apply to every tune out there but I think you'll find that 1 bar and 2 bar loops are the norm.

i very much disagree with this. something is added or removed every 32 beats, so if you loop the 32 beats it hasn't added or removed anything yet. when i've looped something on my computer i've always used a 32 beat loop, except on one occasion i had to use a 16 beat loop as a 32 beat loop would have gone just as you said. and i've had no problems with these loops whatsoever.

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