quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Damo, that's really really heartless of you.

what can i say? i'm a heartless type of guy

quote:

If you would have been where we are would you like to be anhiliated along with the opposers just so the reast of the world has less trouble on his shoulders?

can't really comment on that, but if my political leaders ever pulled what's going on now i'd be the first to oppose and get the hell out of the country. this 18 year old school girl suicide bombing crap is ridiculous. branwashing at it's finest.

___________________

oDrori, you're right.
But in other countries, people with differnt religions live together. Just as an example, in Syria, Muslims, Jews, and Christians live normally.

If it wasn't for the 'political' war in Israel, there wouldn't be so much religious hatred between both sides.

Ofcourse, almost everywhere, there is some sort of religious descrimination, it could be very little, and it could be more noticable.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Damo this 18 year old school girl suicide bombing crap is ridiculous. branwashing at it's finest.

what part of it is brainwashing?

I do believe that the media is the biggest 'brainwasher'...
It's crazy.

___________________

I don't agree with blaming religion as the cause of some wars. It's a bit like blaming Science for Hiroshima. The wars are caused by people using religion to their own ends. Seeing as how most religious texts are vague in their exact meaning, it isn't very hard to twist the words for ones own agenda.

I would instead say that extreme ideologies are the mass murderers. Terrorists, for example, usually justify their actions by an extreme doctrine. World War II had Nazism as its cause. World War I had imperialism as a contributor and so on.

Religion has had a tremendously positive impact on civilizaition IMO. Yes, people have been killed in its name, but the values that most religions teach, like peace and love, are definitely worth striving for.

quote:

Originally posted by Tranex02 what part of it is brainwashing?

what part of it isn't? these are regular school girls willingly giving up their life to make an insignifigant amount of damage. oh no, don't blow up the supermarket.

girls are planning their lives around being a suicide bomber. one quote was something along the lines of "It'd be a great honor for me to die for the cause, if not I hope to become a doctor" etc.

War leaders are boasting that they have thousands of young women offering their services, they called it a women's rights movement among Middle Eastern society and they are proud of their women.

they use cowardly methods to make insignifigant statements, and these martyrs die for their religion thinking they will be greatly rewarded for strapping fertilizer and a bag of nails onto their chest and waltzing into the grocery store. they don't just round up a bunch of lunatics and have them nail bomb random public places. they are cultivated into fanatics who blindly follow fiction and ultimately die thinking they will be moving onto paradise.

it is implanted into them at a young age, the same way they teach little Billy about heaven in catholic schools across North America.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by zarathustra I don't agree with blaming religion as the cause of some wars. It's a bit like blaming Science for Hiroshima. The wars are caused by people using religion to their own ends. Seeing as how most religious texts are vague in their exact meaning, it isn't very hard to twist the words for ones own agenda. I would instead say that extreme ideologies are the mass murderers. Terrorists, for example, usually justify their actions by an extreme doctrine. World War II had Nazism as its cause. World War I had imperialism as a contributor and so on. Religion has had a tremendously positive impact on civilizaition IMO. Yes, people have been killed in its name, but the values that most religions teach, like peace and love, are definitely worth striving for.

I totally agree and in no way was saying that religion is the sole cause. It is people who turn shit around and ruin it for the rest of us, not religion. But it is wierd that so many wars were faught for religion, and kinda like you said, it was bacuse of some fucked up guy who minced the words to support "his own agenda."

And whats the real irony here is

quote:

the values that most religions teach, like peace and love, are definitely worth striving for.

shouldnt people NOT go to war because of their religion.

And another thing: John Ashcroft is a wanker.


-Marc

___________________

no obstacles between my heart and my words; my lips, the great liaison to my soul.

religion is only the greatest excuse for wars. they are always about something else - land, power or money.

quote:

I don't agree with blaming religion as the cause of some wars. It's a bit like blaming Science for Hiroshima. The wars are caused by people using religion to their own ends. Seeing as how most religious texts are vague in their exact meaning, it isn't very hard to twist the words for ones own agenda.

This is the most profound statement. Abandoning religion on the basis that wars are fought in it's name is poor logic. If religion, then war, to deny religion and say no war defies a basic principle of logic. Unfortunately, religious fanatacism leads to war and conflict and looking at history I can see why abandonment of religion in this age of reason seems like a viable option.

I know this is off topic but didn't the whole rave scene start out promoting the (now passe, cheezy, catch phrase) phrase peace love unity and respect? I see things like this international community of tranceaddicts who share ideas and communicate open and freely as a phenomenon of our generation (I assume most people here are late teens and 20s). I think this type of thing will help pave a pathway to peace and respect for people around the world. Just think about that next time you diss someone for their taste in music. How is that different from dissing someone based on their skin colour, religion etc..

quote:

Originally posted by drewfactor Abandoning religion on the basis that wars are fought in it's name is poor logic. If religion, then war, to deny religion and say no war defies a basic principle of logic. Unfortunately, religious fanatacism leads to war and conflict and looking at history I can see why abandonment of religion in this age of reason seems like a viable option.

First off, can you clear up that middle statement, "If religion, then...of logic." I dont understand what you are saying....


Ok, now the real shit.

I hope no one abandons religion over the fact that wars are fought in its name. Basically it would be giving up your beliefs in response to someone elses. War is no reason to leave a religion, but more a reason to love religion. If we lived in a perfect world, we would know what was the 'right' one and everyone would be happy and peaceful. Unfortunately, we do not, but even in the diverse amount of religions today, a common message is found: love one another. People just need to embrace that.

-Marc

___________________

no obstacles between my heart and my words; my lips, the great liaison to my soul.

I'm athiest, I've figured out that if any religion is correct, humanity has twisted it so that it is no where close to what it was meant to be. Therefore, I choose none.

Here is a question: If a power (say God, in this case) is all powerfull, all knowing...

Can he create a rock he cannot move?

If he can create that rock, then he caqn't move it, therefore is not all powerfull. If he cannot create this rock, then his powers are limited as such, therefore is not all powerfull.

Ummm, yeah, there's something to hurt your head with!

quote:

Originally posted by SpykeChyld I'm athiest, I've figured out that if any religion is correct, humanity has twisted it so that it is no where close to what it was meant to be. Therefore, I choose none. Here is a question: If a power (say God, in this case) is all powerfull, all knowing... Can he create a rock he cannot move? If he can create that rock, then he caqn't move it, therefore is not all powerfull. If he cannot create this rock, then his powers are limited as such, therefore is not all powerfull. Ummm, yeah, there's something to hurt your head with!

yeah, in the same sense as the book "sphere." They use their power to manifest the absense of their power... hmm.

-Marc

___________________

no obstacles between my heart and my words; my lips, the great liaison to my soul.

*surprised to find intelligent discussion of serious issue*

Personally I find it totally hypocritical when any religion begins denigrating the other. Consider that everyone is pretty much worshipping the same entity, it makes it seem rather strange.

On the political/religious war issue though, war is just diplomacy through other means. Hitler acquired Austria and Czechoslovakia via diplomacy, then Poland and France via a different sort of diplomacy. Modern wars are generally political, however the general religious suspicion and dislike needs to exist before wars can really be fought.

For a slightly different take on this, I strongly suggest everyone checks out this link...

___________________