quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo please, just let me meet you in person. nothing would bring me more joy.

Haha, yeah. That would be fun, watching a bitch like you squirm. It's about time you got a NeoCulo.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Haha, yeah. That would be fun, watching a bitch like you squirm. It's about time you got a NeoCulo.

I got it!!! Q you can come on down to Austin,,, Shaolin Lives just down the way from me....
We can meet at the Skate Park. I can bring my Boom Box and we can have an old fashion dance off!!!


I can get some industry people to make flyers and I can sell Mexican Hats and Sun dresses.

you kids.......you all know I am the OG tripple OG of the Texan TAs...

quote:

Originally posted by ResonantDrag enter the justification for crashing his "death" bed party d00d, do you actually believe what you write, or is it some forced response that transcends rationalization? your pair of threes don't beat this full house, regardless how you try to define the rules.

lol, yeah...

Sometimes I wonder if that fellow's even playing with all the cards in his deck..

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Sometimes I wonder if that fellow's even playing with all the cards in his deck..

are you? seriously sometimes you post stuff here that seems like it could only come out of a drug induced psychosis.

thats great and all but what about the issue of Gonzalez?

theres something missing from this story that we don't have.

Resonantdrag claims i lack some rationalization yet i gave him my rationale that Card and Gonzalez thought that Comey was going to pull off some kind of coup by a new AG in an emergency situation. Comey may have had a good excuse not to sign off on the re-authorization and apparently, according to Comey, he and Ashcroft agreed just prior to his sudden illness, but for some reason it wasn't communicated to the administration...or maybe it was. either way it would have to have been re-authorized by Comey in 45 days again regardless.

in the end Bush stepped in between the two parties and settled it whatever it was and the NSA program went on with Comey's legal blessing.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Resonantdrag claims i lack some rationalization yet i gave him my rationale that Card and Gonzalez thought that Comey was going to pull off some kind of coup by a new AG in an emergency situation. Comey may have had a good excuse not to sign off on the re-authorization and apparently, according to Comey, he and Ashcroft agreed just prior to his sudden illness, but for some reason it wasn't communicated to the administration...or maybe it was. either way it would have to have been re-authorized by Comey in 45 days again regardless. in the end Bush stepped in between the two parties and settled it whatever it was and the NSA program went on with Comey's legal blessing.

Yeah, that's why I'm not pleased with the fellow. He's just another "should have", "could have" done something right and good but didn't.

quote:

theres something missing from this story that we don't have.

Indeed.

quote:

are you? seriously sometimes you post stuff here that seems like it could only come out of a drug induced psychosis.

Like alcohol, painkillers, and small towns in texas? Naaaaaaaaah, I don't think so.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo this isn't a card game. you can leave your pointless analogies at the door. what i stated is all in the record. what you BDS people don't realize is that you get your stories as these fragmented scenarios that make it look like there has been some wrong doing when in reality it's just not the case. you've been led there by the media. what you just witnessed was behind the scenes confusion and misunderstanding brought on by the sudden illness of Ashcroft and the attorney firings and possiblley the whole Wilson charade. Comey didn't resign that following monday, did he? no. he stayed on long after this and after the Administration looked closely at his concerns and rightly so i presume because he continued to authorize the legality of the program. again the story is sexy but it's just that.

first off, i was out of line to post what i posted last night. i'm surprised to have come home with more money than i left with. poker night was a little too fun. you said it best:

quote:

PS. i kinda drunk so bear with me here.

but please don't bring the librul media argument into this discussion, as i originally could not find any reference to this in any media sources at the time i saw the testimony. anytime someone justifies remembering the dates and times by stating (and i paraphrase):"because i knew that i'd be brought forth to testify about these events in the future" is never a good sign of his own perceived legality of the events transposed. hell, are we supposed to believe that Comey knew the weather on any given day in March of 2004, and your buddy AG has memory lapses of months at a time?

now we can continue to play the "as i see, as tony says" game, but for me to find myself in agreeance with John Ashcroft of all people is a little much for my BDS (btw, i haven't listen to Rush recently, wtf is BDS?) self to absorb.

The simple matter is... THE PROGRAM SIDESTEPPED ALL JUDICIAL SAFEFALLS DESIGNED (by the attorney general) TO MAKE THE PROGRAM LEGAL. the program as designed stated that there would be a review by the FISA courts for all wiretaps performed within a designate time period (3 months i believe) of the start of the eavesdropping. The administration got mad that the court started to rule negatively on more and more unjustified wiretaps and just decided that it didn't serve their interest to allow the judicial branch their constitutionally guaranteed privilege of checks and balances. this recent testimony disproves the notion..

quote:

what you just witnessed was behind the scenes confusion and misunderstanding brought on by the sudden illness of Ashcroft and the attorney firings and possiblley the whole Wilson charade.

and puts it more in the process of methodical line of thoughts to undermine the constitution in the name of national security. I suspect that Scooter's name will not be the only on the desktop-o-pardons in Dec 2008. i should buy stock in that paper company before then.



PS. i don't want to fight anyone, so everyone can rest easy. No tickets to this Gun show

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Resonantdrag claims i lack some rationalization yet i gave him my rationale that Card and Gonzalez thought that Comey was going to pull off some kind of coup by a new AG in an emergency situation.

again, sorry, it's not that you lack rationalization, it's just that your rationalizations are rather tired if not cliche. Fear of a coup? you've got to be f***in kidding.

quote:

Comey may have had a good excuse not to sign off on the re-authorization and apparently, according to Comey, he and Ashcroft agreed just prior to his sudden illness, but for some reason it wasn't communicated to the administration...or maybe it was. either way it would have to have been re-authorized by Comey in 45 days again regardless.

once this communication was made, your buddy Card wasn't too pleased was he? it's almost like his fears were confirmed and had to run to the white house as soon as possible to commence damage control. but there was no coup

quote:

in the end Bush stepped in between the two parties and settled it whatever it was and the NSA program went on with Comey's legal blessing.

not as (de)signed. i wish 'ol Comey would bite the bullet and give some details in these conversations that obviously left him displeased with the oval office. but this testimony is damning enough as a stand alone.

quote:

Originally posted by ResonantDrag Fear of a coup? you've got to be f***in kidding.

in a metaphorical sense you half-wit. i told you already that Wolfowitz had signed off on the program 20 times prior, probably a dozen times before Comey even came to the DOJ as DAG in 2003. when they got wind that Comey, now as acting AG while Wolfowitz incapacitated, was not going to re-up all of a sudden after years of success with it they obviously were concerned.

quote:

once this communication was made, your buddy Card wasn't too pleased was he? it's almost like his fears were confirmed and had to run to the white house as soon as possible to commence damage control. but there was no coup

does he have to be pleased? he's in the position to protect the policies of his President. the President knew that he didn't need DOJ's approval right away and managed to square Comey's concerns ex post facto. bottom line is the program went on legally.

quote:

not as (de)signed. i wish 'ol Comey would bite the bullet and give some details in these conversations that obviously left him displeased with the oval office. but this testimony is damning enough as a stand alone.

it's only damning in a sense that it puts Gonzalez in a bad light, and in the absense any wrong doing on his part, thats all Chuck Shumer wants.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo in a metaphorical sense you half-wit. i told you already that Wolfowitz had signed off on the program 20 times prior, probably a dozen times before Comey even came to the DOJ as DAG in 2003. when they got wind that Comey, now as acting AG while Wolfowitz incapacitated, was not going to re-up all of a sudden after years of success with it they obviously were concerned.

When was Wolfowitz ever Attorney General?

Dude, you really are living in a fantasy world on this whole Gonzales issue, aren't you?



MrS

___________________
Click the sig to see MrSquirrel

-"Reality" is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo in a metaphorical sense you half-wit.

yeah, look at me! i'm a half-wit.. q5 must be running on a weak argument. now all i need to do is read the rest of the post...

quote:

i told you already that Wolfowitz had signed off on the program 20 times prior, probably a dozen times before Comey even came to the DOJ as DAG in 2003. when they got wind that Comey, now as acting AG while Wolfowitz incapacitated, was not going to re-up all of a sudden after years of success with it they obviously were concerned.

holy shit! i was right. now you're basing the legality of this program on the scruples of Paul Wolfowitz? or did your drunk ass mean Ashcroft? either way, you've been spun dizzy yet again and it shows. the program as signed was the program as designed, which had to do with inclusion of the judicial branch.

quote:

does he have to be pleased? he's in the position to protect the policies of his President. the President knew that he didn't need DOJ's approval right away and managed to square Comey's concerns ex post facto. bottom line is the program went on legally.

as far as your president is concerned, he doesn't need anyone's approval, being the decider and all. this is the theme of this administration... fire or ignore all countering advisers. the advise still stands, and when it's based on the law, portraying ignorance is not bliss.

how does it feel supporting a crook? or has it not sunk in yet? your arguments sound more and more based on denial of the charges, not as viable explanations for the events as transposed. they say that denial is the first step.

quote:

it's only damning in a sense that it puts Gonzalez in a bad light, and in the absense any wrong doing on his part, thats all Chuck Shumer wants.

aww, how cute. the bottom line is that it's chuck shumer's fault. go back to the drawing board on this one, sparky. i hear some of the die hard nixon supporters took over five years to finally accept they were defending a criminal... how long will it take you?

and Q... please discontinue treating my posts as a fruit cocktail (thx, mr. baker). if you wish to acknowledge anything said, please respond in full. i'm still a little bitter that you won't tell me what a EDM or BDM or whatever is..

also, dodging the judicial dodging aspect of the signed program makes you look, well... a little bit like a tool. that is in fact the largest unconstitutional aspect of the exercised program.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo its a very confusing story and sexy, but actually nothing was done wrong by anybody. fundamentally, the NSA program had legal ground enough for Ashcroft to sign off on 20 times prior but inexplicably, for reasons of top secrecy, Comey and the OLC looked into a new aspect of program that they could not jive with seeing as how Comey was now going to be thew one to sign off on it's legality every 45 days.

There were no reasons of top secrecy, unless you're submitting that Comey's public testimony is somehow "top secrecy". And while it's true that Ashcroft had signed off on the program for that period of time between 2001 and 2004, what was also true was that under a serious investigation into the program, it came to their attention that this program had some serious legality questions (i.e. it was illegal). From Comey's testimony:

quote:

COMEY: In the early part of 2004, the Department of Justice was engaged — the Office of Legal Counsel, under my supervision — in a reevaluation both factually and legally of a particular classified program. And it was a program that was renewed on a regular basis, and required signature by the attorney general certifying to its legality. And the — and I remember the precise date. The program had to be renewed by March the 11th, which was a Thursday, of 2004. And we were engaged in a very intensive reevaluation of the matter. And a week before that March 11th deadline, I had a private meeting with the attorney general for an hour, just the two of us, and I laid out for him what we had learned and what our analysis was in this particular matter. And at the end of that hour-long private session, he and I agreed on a course of action. And within hours he was stricken and taken very, very ill…

That course of action that both had agreed to was to NOT sign off again on the program. And BTW, it wasn't a NEW part of the program as you have insinuated. Unless you have some sort of documentation to present that implies this was on a different part of the program, you cannot logically draw such conclusions.

quote:

Card and Gonzalez got wind of this and when they found out Ashcroft could be gone they thought they were gonna be bamboozeled by the new AG.

They weren't getting bamboozled by anyone and you know it. They were fully aware that Ashcroft had temporarily given his position over to Comey, and yet they ran to his bedside in an attempt to sideswipe Comey's LEGAL authority as acting AG while Ashcroft was sick. From Comey's testimony:

quote:

And Attorney General Ashcroft then stunned me. He lifted his head off the pillow and in very strong terms expressed his view of the matter, rich in both substance and fact, which stunned me — drawn from the hour-long meeting we’d had a week earlier — and in very strong terms expressed himself, and then laid his head back down on the pillow, seemed spent, and said to them,But that doesn’t matter, because I’m not the attorney general…and he pointed to me, and I was just to his left. The two men did not acknowledge me. They turned and walked from the room.

\Again I wonder, which part of Comey's testimony supports your contentions?

quote:

After Bush told Comey and Mueller to "do what they think is right" and after he had authorized it pursuant to executive order (you really don't need DOJ's approval immediately) Comey actually says the program was revised to satisfy the new DOJ's concerns and the program continued to be reauthorized every 45 days.

Comey said nothing of the sort, and his threat of resignation as well as taking the large bulk of the DOJ employees with him tell a very different story. Again, from his testimony:

quote:

SCHUMER: And why did you decide to resign? … COMEY: I believed that I couldn’t — I couldn’t stay, if the administration was going to engage in conduct that the Department of Justice had said had no legal basis. I just simply couldn’t stay.

I'm curious, Q, as to what part of "had no legal basis" you seemingly misunderstand?

He goes further:

quote:

SCHUMER: Now, let me just ask you this. And this obviously is all troubling. As I understand it, you believed that others were also prepared to resign, not just you, is that correct? … Was one of those Director Mueller? COMEY: I believe so. You’d have to ask him, but I believe so. […] SCHUMER: How about your chief of staff? COMEY: Yes. He was certainly going to go when I went. SCHUMER: Right. How about Mr. Ashcroft’s chief of staff? COMEY: My understanding was that he would go as well. … Mr. Ashcroft’s chief of staff asked me something that meant a great deal to him, and that is that I not resign until Mr. Ashcroft was well enough to resign with me. He was very concerned that Mr. Ashcroft was not well enough to understand fully what was going on. And he begged me to wait until — this was Thursday that I was making this decision — to wait til Monday to give him the weekend to get oriented enough so that I wouldn’t leave him behind, was his concern. SCHUMER: And it was his view that Mr. Ashcroft was likely to resign as well? COMEY: Yes. SCHUMER: So what did you do when you heard that? COMEY: I agreed to wait. I said that what I would do is — that Friday would be last day. And Monday morning I would resign. […]

When the DOJ determines this Administration has "no legal basis" to continue with it's wiretaps that are circumventing the FISA courts, that's no small matter for any President to be deliberately ignoring. And keep in mind that the DOJ felt passionate enough to threaten a massive resignation if Bush didn't comply, to which he supposedly did (though not really). But that doesn't erase the fact again that he went ahead and did it anyway for two weeks, nor does that erase the fact that the DOJ found that the program was likely illegal and needs to be stopped PRIOR to Ashcroft falling ill.

But if there's something in the testimony that you can interpret differently, by all means quote it and discuss.

quote:

i know all this sexy behind the scenes stuff gets you lefties in a tizzy but nothing wrong was done here.

Circumventing FISA laws, laws enacted to keep the Executive office from spying illegally on its citizens has nothing to do with lefties. It's a very simple problem of illegality by this Administration.

And finally, let's again remember how Gonzales specifically blocked Comey's testimony for over a year while the complicit GOP-led Congress did nothing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10663996/site/newsweek/

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...