I certainly realize the futility in boycotting an oil company. It's not about trying to put them out of business. Some socialism may not be a bad thing especially with south america, but full-blown all-out socialism just doesn't work. I know his government owns Citgo, so my portest to Chavez's policy is not buying their biggest export product.

People can always say Europe or China would just buy the oil. But really, it would cost more to them to sell it to logistically difficult locations like China. And we would be more willing to "go green" quicker.

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This "anti-commie" witchunt bullshit from the McCarthy era is so fucking stupid.

The US will still be the single largest buyer of Venezuelan crude oil, regardless of if you buy from Citgo stations or not. Every fucking Citgo in the country could close, and it would not matter one rat cent.

Start using the first part of the term you like to call yourself (conserve) and stop driving everywhere by yourself in your land yachts and thus lower the overall demand for oil, which is what props up these regimes everyone bitches about.


MrS

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quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel This "anti-commie" witchunt bullshit from the McCarthy era is so fucking stupid. The US will still be the single largest buyer of Venezuelan crude oil, regardless of if you buy from Citgo stations or not. Every fucking Citgo in the country could close, and it would not matter one rat cent. Start using the first part of the term you like to call yourself (conserve) and stop driving everywhere by yourself in your land yachts and thus lower the overall demand for oil, which is what props up these regimes everyone bitches about. MrS

Well at least one American State gets the right picture...

quote:

Alaska Villages Reject Venezuela Oil By JEANNETTE J. LEE The Associated Press Monday, October 9, 2006; 9:04 PM ANCHORAGE, Alaska -- In Alaska's native villages, the punishing winter cold is already coming through the walls of the lightly insulated plywood homes, many of the villagers are desperately poor, and heating-oil prices are among the highest in the nation. And yet a few villages are refusing free heating oil from Venezuela, on the patriotic principle that no foreigner has the right to call their president "the devil." The heating oil is being offered by the petroleum company controlled by Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, President Bush's nemesis. While scores of Alaska's Eskimo and Indian villages say they have no choice but to accept, others would rather suffer. "As a citizen of this country, you can have your own opinion of our president and our country. But I don't want a foreigner coming in here and bashing us," said Justine Gunderson, administrator for the tribal council in the Aleut village of Nelson Lagoon. "Even though we're in economically dire straits, it was the right choice to make." Nelson Lagoon residents pay more than $5 a gallon for oil _ or at least $300 a month per household _ to heat their homes along the wind-swept coast of the Bering Sea, where temperatures can dip to minus-15. About one-quarter of the 70 villagers are looking for work, in part because Alaska's salmon fishing industry has been hit hard by competition from fish farms. The donation to Alaska's native villages has focused attention on the rampant poverty and high fuel prices in a state that is otherwise awash in oil _ and oil profits. In 2005, 86 percent of the Alaska's general fund, or $2.8 billion, came from oil from the North Slope. The Aleutian Pribilof Islands Association, a native nonprofit organization that would have handled the heating oil donation on behalf of 291 households in Nelson Lagoon, Atka, St. Paul and St. George, rejected the offer because of the insults Chavez has hurled at Bush. Chavez called Bush "the devil" in a speech to the United Nations last month. He has also called the president a terrorist and denounced the war in Iraq. Dimitri Philemonof, president and chief executive of the association, said accepting the aid would be "compromising ourselves." "I think we have some duty to our country, and I think it's loyalty," he said. Over the past two years, Citgo, the Venezuelan government's Texas-based oil subsidiary, has given millions of gallons of discounted heating oil to the poor in several states and cities _ including New York, Connecticut, Vermont, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Maine _ in what is widely seen as an effort by Chavez to embarrass and irritate the U.S. government and make himself look good. Maine Gov. John Baldacci, who approved an agreement last winter to buy discounted oil, said he had no plans this year to seek a similar arrangement. In Boston, a City Council member wants a landmark Citgo sign near Fenway Park taken down and replaced with an American flag. In Florida, a lawmaker asked the state to cancel Citgo's exclusive contract to sell fuel at turnpike service stations. About 150 native villages in Alaska have accepted money for heating oil from Citgo. The oil company does not operate in Alaska, so instead of sending oil, it is donating about $5.3 million to native nonprofit organizations to buy 100 gallons this winter for each of more than 12,000 households. "When you have a dire need and it is a matter of survival for your people, it doesn't matter where, what country, the gift or donation comes from," said Virginia Commack, an elder in the arctic village of Ambler, an impoverished Eskimo community of 280 where residents are paying $7.25 a gallon for fuel. For years, Alaska natives have accused the state and federal governments of sending too little money to their tiny, far-flung communities, where fuel and grocery prices are bloated by the high costs of delivery by plane and barge. An editorial last month in the Anchorage Daily News bashed the Legislature's rejection in March of an $8.8 million state supplement to a federal program that helps poor Alaskans with home heating costs. "It's embarrassing that residents in a state with so much oil wealth should be looking to a foreign nation for help," the newspaper said. "It's hard to blame villagers for accepting the gift." A spokesman for Gov. Frank Murkowski, John Manly, said the governor believes Chavez's donation is a ploy to undermine Americans' faith in their government. But he said it is up to each village to make its own decision. "It seems like a very strange irony that we produce the oil and yet every year there seems to be a chronic problem in getting the fuel to people that need it," Manly said. Joan Eddy, principal and teacher at Nelson Lagoon's school, said most buildings in town were erected 30 to 40 years ago, which makes them pretty old, considering how they get battered by the constant 20-25 mph wind coming off the ocean. Their heating systems are aging, too. She noted the fuel barge is late arriving this year, and said residents are turning on their furnaces for only a few hours in the morning and at night. "We're conserving as much as we can because we are concerned. It looks like it's going to be a snowy winter and cold," she said.

>>Source<<

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"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Well at least one American State gets the right picture...

That was a good move on their part; however, boycotting Venezuelan oil is just like boycotting oil from Iran... it is just going to go to another country. Japan buys most of the oil from Iran; the US just gets more oil from the other exporting countries.

Or, if people just boycott Citgo, it doesn't really work because all US oil companies are down in Venezuela doing business to use that same oil for their gasoline. We can't boycott every gasoline station unless we stop driving... Maybe Mr. S can do that, but I love my car.

quote:

Originally posted by spiflicated That was a good move on their part; however, boycotting Venezuelan oil is just like boycotting oil from Iran... it is just going to go to another country. Japan buys most of the oil from Iran; the US just gets more oil from the other exporting countries. Or, if people just boycott Citgo, it doesn't really work because all US oil companies are down in Venezuela doing business to use that same oil for their gasoline. We can't boycott every gasoline station unless we stop driving... Maybe Mr. S can do that, but I love my car.

I understand, its like herding cats, but that doesn't mean you have to make it easy for them either...

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

I boycotted citgo when chavez came and spoke at the U.N.

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Vernato

You guys are missing the point I was trying to make in the middle of my scatalogical rant.
(which is somewhat understandable in the circumstance)

If you stop buying Citgo branded oil, it does not matter, the Venezuelan oil will still be sold to the US. Some other refiner will just buy it as crude and refine it and sell it under a different label.

Venezuelan oil is a much more secure and cost effective place to buy crude out of than the gulf, even with the whole Chavez furor.

But go ahead and start another "freedom" fries campaign if it will make you feel good without taking responsibility for how your own actions, and those you support, are a part of the cause of the underlying problem.



MrS

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quote:

Originally posted by MrSquirrel You guys are missing the point I was trying to make in the middle of my scatalogical rant. (which is somewhat understandable in the circumstance) If you stop buying Citgo branded oil, it does not matter, the Venezuelan oil will still be sold to the US. Some other refiner will just buy it as crude and refine it and sell it under a different label. Venezuelan oil is a much more secure and cost effective place to buy crude out of than the gulf, even with the whole Chavez furor. But go ahead and start another "freedom" fries campaign if it will make you feel good without taking responsibility for how your own actions, and those you support, are a part of the cause of the underlying problem. MrS

No, it's called exercising a customer's choice in a free market society.

I really don't see how this is connected to "freedom fries" unless you're suggesting that somehow freedom of choice in a free market has some correlation to anti-French sentiment?
(I'm not catching the connection here...)

Sure they'll go somewhere else and peddle their warez but that's not the point.
Unless we magically stop using oil altogether the only permanent solution is lessen the dependency with alternative energy solutions.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I certainly realize the futility in boycotting an oil company. It's not about trying to put them out of business. Some socialism may not be a bad thing especially with south america, but full-blown all-out socialism just doesn't work. I know his government owns Citgo, so my portest to Chavez's policy is not buying their biggest export product. People can always say Europe or China would just buy the oil. But really, it would cost more to them to sell it to logistically difficult locations like China. And we would be more willing to "go green" quicker.

Gas stations sell different company's gas. A citgo gas station may sell gas from shell and a BP gas station may sell gas that comes from citgo.