quote:

Originally posted by m2j djs play music made by producers. people steal the music. producers don't make money, and thus can't afford to or is not beneficial to make more music. that is bad. less new music = less music to spin = less need for djs.

Well, I don't know many underground producers that have released much on CD in the past few years. And most underground DJs still buy the vinyl unless they are spinning a genre that doesn't get pressed, like psy.

I'm not sure most undergound music producers would ever make much money, although it would be nice if they did. There are always the exceptions. Besides, they can still sell the mp3s and that can be done completely independant of a record label. I think your "undergound" and my "underground" may be two differnent undergrounds.

___________________
Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music.

^^^
i don't get what you're debating here...
its basic ethics that stealing is wrong.

and stealing music is specifically bad for electronic music/'underground' music, because they have so little to begin with.

___________________
-M2J

For set downloads, event details and radio schedule visit:
http://www.vitalevents.net/

ALL MUSIC should be bought and NEVER stolen.

Even when you rip off major labels and artists like snoop dog or kelly clarkson you are still ripping off your own scene. Why? because in the past the revenues from those artists subisdized lesser known artists many of which you have come to know and love.

I love how people try to justify stealing music. It never ceases to amuse me.

Just stop your argument next time and substitute almost any product for the word music to see how ridiculous you really sound.

My only real worry is that they will stop producing actual CDs, and the industry will go backwards.

People have proved they do not care about sound quality.

PS: one thing that is astounding is how we tend to think that people owe it to us to provide us with free/dirt cheap entertainment.

Whether it's someone justifying ripping off music on the net or crying about how cover was way too much and "the club owner made way too much money."

Who ultimately pays for this cheapness? Certainly not the label owner or club owner. It ALWAYS falls back on the artist, DJ, band, etc. You can rest assured that if the owners are making less, the talent is making WAY less which in turn eventually offers less incentive for the artist to even exist in the first place.

This is what is starting to happen in a big way. Its not as apparently yet to the outsider but many artists are retiring prematurly due to lack of sales.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko My only real worry is that they will stop producing actual CDs, and the industry will go backwards. People have proved they do not care about sound quality.

Agreed. Its amazing the difference between an MP3 burnt CD and a store bought one.

No comparison. The store bought wins everytime

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Just stop your argument next time and substitute almost any product for the word music to see how ridiculous you really sound.

how about this, I can return any product I don't like except music.

___________________
I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur how about this, I can return any product I don't like except music.

Or video games..

You used to be able to return music until it was easy to copy it. Now you can usually hear the album before you buy so no excuses there.

quote:

Originally posted by LittlePoonzgirl Besides, they can still sell the mp3s and that can be done completely independant of a record label. I think your "undergound" and my "underground" may be two differnent undergrounds.

How??

Every artist is going to set up an internet merchant account, design his own website and spend tonnes of money promoting himself online? It takes label influence to get on sites like itunes and beatport just as it does to get on the shelves at HMV. The labels arent as useless as most people tend to think.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 How?? Every artist is going to set up an internet merchant account, design his own website and spend tonnes of money promoting himself online? It takes label influence to get on sites like itunes and beatport just as it does to get on the shelves at HMV. The labels arent as useless as most people tend to think.

Because record labels, especially the big ones, have connections to other forms of media which allows them easy access to promotion of their artists. They have the money to "market" the artists since the artists themselves usually do not, or are not even capable of marketing.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 Now you can usually hear the album before you buy so no excuses there.

I can get the complete version of Tiesto's Elements Of Life within minutes, instead of listening to a 30-sec clip of each song on Amazon. It's actually more convenient to illegally download to preview the album than it is to do so legally, which is obviously backwards, but we'll just ignore that and settle on the simple, "listening to samples SUCKS".

Anyway, I'm not going to bother argiung this any further, especially after reading

quote:

Even worse, the record companies waited almost two years after Napster's July 2nd, 2001, shutdown before licensing a user-friendly legal alternative to unauthorized file-sharing services: Apple's iTunes Music Store, which launched in the spring of 2003. Before that, labels started their own subscription services: PressPlay, which initially offered only Sony, Universal and EMI music, and MusicNet, which had only EMI, Warner and BMG music. The services failed. They were expensive, allowed little or no CD burning and didn't work with many MP3 players then on the market.

The record companies failed to address a HUGE paradigm shift, and that's what ruined them. It can and will happen in any business where you try to resist these shifts. The environment they existed in changed, they didn't adapt, pushed away their very own customers, and now they're wondering why no one's responding to their cries of pity?

I personally could care less if all the record companies collapsed. Music existed before them, and music will continue to exist after them.

___________________
I'm the trouble starter, fuckin' instigator.
I'm the fear-addicted, danger illustrated.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur The record companies failed to address a HUGE paradigm shift

After reading that blip about the retail market holding a gun to their head I have a bit more pity for the unfortunate situation that record execs are in.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Music existed before them

barely

___________________
http://www.beatport.com/jonathan-rosa/