quote:

Originally posted by xtr3m If a track's BPM is not a whole number then I'd say it was ripped from a vinyl. Producers aren't that cruel and besides: what's the point? "OK, today I'm going to produce at 126.375 BPM."

See earlier post about not everyone using digital means to produce.

Honestly - I'm shocked that as many of you who seem to think "Dj'ing by numbers" is tried and true. It isn't.

Also - I don't believe in the existence of whole numbers, but that's another topic for another forum entirely.

___________________
last minute disco dot net

quote:

Originally posted by RJT Not really, if you want to be accurate about it I'll bet there aren't really any tracks at X BPM (sans the .xx).

You are wrong.

___________________
Eyad Allayla - drums cubana - di.fm - tribal house channel - twisted_techy_hooks

short answer:
it doesnt make beatmatching easier, but allows you to hold a transition longer with fewer adjustments

___________________
www.misterfalconmusic.com

I learned to beatmatch on Technics, by ear and by hand. I wouldn't recommend anyone learning any other way.

However, now that I have CDJ-1000's and Ableton, I've noticed two things:

1) 95% of tracks are produced at whole number BPMs (127.0, 128.0, 129.0, etc), or some tiny variation thereof (by like .01 or .01).

2) For the average house track at 124-130 BPM, 0.8% of pitch change represents almost exactly 1.0 BPM of tempo change.

Knowing this, I can beatmatch almost instantly, almost every time. Of course, there are small variations that need correcting, and once and a while you'll get a track with an irregular BPM. So obviously, if you rely on this trick you're only setting yourself up for failure. But, like with anything, if you use it properly it can be a valuable resource. If I want to change my mind at the last second about what track to spin next, or if I want to make a quick transition, or do a 3 deck mashup, I can do it quickly.

___________________
NEW MIX [Feb/March 2008]

quote:

Originally posted by RJT See earlier post about not everyone using digital means to produce.

There's a lot of producers out there making tracks via non-digital means? What are they using?

I have yet to meet an electronic music producer that is recording straight to tape and lining up tracks up by ear. At some point it gets into a sequencer of some kind, whether for producing or mastering. That's not to say, though, you can't end up with a .xy bpm... you can. For example, in Ableton, you can warp the bpm of a loop to match the song, or warp the song to match the loop. If you randomly recorded the loop and set the song to match the loop, it's possible you end up with some weird bpm number.

On the subject of math and dj'ing, I think it is helpful to know the math - I assume it can't hurt in a crunch. Personally, it's easier for me to beat match by ear, but everyone is different.

quote:

Originally posted by miamitranceman Of course it's going to be easier on 1000s vs TTs or cheaper cd decks. By nature they're more precise. Doesn't make you any more or less of a DJ.

ummm, no.

turntables are more accurate because the have a analog pitch control. mixes will hold longer on TT's than on CD decks. theres no arguing that. however i do feel its easier for a beginner to mix on CD decks than turntables.

___________________
Digweed is not from this planet.

quote:

Originally posted by hooj1 ummm, no. turntables are more accurate because the have a analog pitch control. mixes will hold longer on TT's than on CD decks. theres no arguing that. however i do feel its easier for a beginner to mix on CD decks than turntables.

How can that be when 1000s go to .02 accuracy? There's so many other physical issues with TT such as motor Torque too.

___________________
Click the link below to stream all of my mixes past and present. New mixes go up about once a month. Enjoy!

www.mixcloud.com/jluger

quote:

Originally posted by starboy You are wrong.

And you're a legendary cunt.

Look, now we're both Captain Obvious.

___________________
last minute disco dot net

i tend to save my ears for listen to the sound of a track and the musical aspect of it.

after you've done it a while on cdjs, you just sort of know how much to pitch it regardless of if you do the math or not.


of course you have to use your ears, but it only makes sense to approximate it quickly in your head while the cd is still sliding in the drive, and then fine tune it with your ears


and regardless of it you have the tempos exactly matched, you still have to align the two tracks properly and that will make all the difference.


i tend to mash my tracks a lot and so I use these rules of thumb because I don't have a lot of time to beatmatch when the first and last 3 minutes of tracks are playing with other tracks

I learned to dj with vinyl. It is true that you can make mixes last a long time with the analog pitch control, you're pretty much restricted by the sensitivity of the fader and your manual dexterity.



People produce tracks mostly at whole number bpms. I don't know many who would go into cubase or something and set the master tempo to 126.04. When I buy music digitally, I load them up in ableton and key them by playing along, determine the bpm using the warp grid, and then record all the track details in an excel database, where I then sort them out into groups of 9 or 10 for putting them on cds.

even if a track's tempo is like 125.98 compared to 126,

that's a variation of

0.016 %, which is not going to cause you many problems, especially if you're using your ears. you can never get it exactly anyways since tracks rarely are going to have tempo differentials of exactly .2 % multiples, or .5%



it's not 'deejaying with numbers'. for me it's common knowledge, like special right triangle sides to engineers. i pull a cd out of my box and the first thing i think is, is this faster or slower, then, by how much, then i basically know how much i have to pitch it to get it close with multiples of around .8 at the tempos i usually play, then it's all ears. I don't see the problem here

Last edited by nefardec on Jun-27-2007 at 14:29

quote:

Originally posted by nefardec i tend to save my ears for listen to the sound of a track and the musical aspect of it. after you've done it a while on cdjs, you just sort of know how much to pitch it regardless of if you do the math or not. of course you have to use your ears, but it only makes sense to approximate it quickly in your head while the cd is still sliding in the drive, and then fine tune it with your ears and regardless of it you have the tempos exactly matched, you still have to align the two tracks properly and that will make all the difference. i tend to mash my tracks a lot and so I use these rules of thumb because I don't have a lot of time to beatmatch when the first and last 3 minutes of tracks are playing with other tracks I learned to dj with vinyl. It is true that you can make mixes last a long time with the analog pitch control, you're pretty much restricted by the sensitivity of the fader and your manual dexterity. People produce tracks mostly at whole number bpms. I don't know many who would go into cubase or something and set the master tempo to 126.04. When I buy music digitally, I load them up in ableton and key them by playing along, determine the bpm using the warp grid, and then record all the track details in an excel database, where I then sort them out into groups of 9 or 10 for putting them on cds. even if a track's tempo is like 125.98 compared to 126, that's a variation of 0.016 %, which is not going to cause you many problems, especially if you're using your ears. you can never get it exactly anyways since tracks rarely are going to have tempo differentials of exactly .2 % multiples, or .5% it's not 'deejaying with numbers'. for me it's common knowledge, like special right triangle sides to engineers. i pull a cd out of my box and the first thing i think is, is this faster or slower, then, by how much, then i basically know how much i have to pitch it to get it close with multiples of around .8 at the tempos i usually play, then it's all ears. I don't see the problem here

You are right =)

___________________
Here are my latest mixes:
Pepa - Pure Bliss (June 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Visual Thoughts (March 2007 Promo)
Pepa - Trippin' Again

Mash-ups:
Perasma Vs BT - Swing 2 Gravity (Pepa Live Mash-up)
I Trance You!

I'd have to say no as they're both fucking easy to use.

___________________
I've never been able to eat a whole baby.
Kill the women. Eat the children.
It's just one of those days where you want to bend over everyone you know and kiss their ass goodbye with a big sideways boot.

Latest Mix