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Originally posted by Magnetonium If you were a firefighter in NY and then somehow you knew about the asbestos and that it wasnt safe to operate there, would you have went there anyway with paper masks (which were discouraged because they 'scared' people). It wasnt that hard for the officials to supply more durable breathing equipment in that risky job. But, however, ever FEMA said that it was safe to work at Ground Zero, no health risks. Firefighters are not expendable, you know. Their health is important too. From my knowledge they should be informed the kind of blaze they will be fighting and safety/health precautions - which weren't given in this case. All that firefighters needed to hear (without a need for 5-minute discussion) is ASBESTOS. Then they could have gotten appropriate masks for their own work safety. 5 minutes tops. EDIT: I dont think any firefighter would want to rush into a fire that has chemicals, plastic, asbestos burning and/or collapsing. You dont need to be a frigging scientist to figure out that proper breathing apparatus is required as with any safety regulations for a job.

I think it is sort of insulting to tell a firefighter, whos occupation it is to go into burning buildings and know what chemcials do and behave, that any building built before the 1970s has Asbestos.

As trained professional this would be equivalent to telling you babies come from sex. Yes, and?

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Originally posted by Shakka That's a touchy subject. In all honesty and not to be combative, but they probably would. As if walking into a burning building is any more safe? As if a raging inferno isn't health hazard enough. Oh, you mean a little asbestos might be involved? Ooooh...fuck that. I'm only prepared to deal with 5 alarm fires. The point is that whatever happens with this whole story, whether it haunts Guliani or not, the detail that you're choosing to go after is neither here nor there. That's like saying a soldier wouldn't go into battle if he were told that live ammunition were involved.

Are you seriously trying to play down the importance of the 9/11 fire fighter's opinion on a presidential candidate that was the mayor of NYC? The man has built his entire image on praising the heroics of these people. Giuliani is done, hes not going to get the republican ticket because of this, no way.

swift boat veterans?

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Originally posted by Yoepus I think it is sort of insulting to tell a firefighter, whos occupation it is to go into burning buildings and know what chemcials do and behave, that any building built before the 1970s has Asbestos. As trained professional this would be equivalent to telling you babies come from sex. Yes, and?

Firefighters didnt just get cancer from asbestos. Its from the smoke of the burned-up and liquified plastics, fire alarms, and other hazardous particles. They worked in shifts at the sites for quite some time, but what kind of protection did they have to prevent the lungs getting all that shit? Asbestos, yes, you're right. I meant to say that this is not just about asbestos.

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Originally posted by josh4 Are you seriously trying to play down the importance of the 9/11 fire fighter's opinion on a presidential candidate that was the mayor of NYC? The man has built his entire image on praising the heroics of these people. Giuliani is done, hes not going to get the republican ticket because of this, no way.

Hmmm...the same way the Democrats were dismissive of the Swift Boat Veterans who actually served in Vietnam, right? Pot meet kettle. Just sayin...

Now before Opus jumps all over that comment, it was said for comparative reasons. Not to incite some 18 page article citing response. Re-read my initial response:

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originally posted by Shakka Nothing like a swift kick in the nuts, eh boys?

it takes years of exposure to asbestos to develop lung cancer.

What fires do you think firefighters deal with on a daily basis that do not involve burning plastics etc???? are you retarded? they arent putting out camp fires dumbass.... every fire they deal with has pissloads of burning composites and plastics..... the dust masks were for particualtes not for filtering out smoke..concrete duest is extreemly caustic and can cause silicosis. Im quite sure that gulliani didnt look at all the firefighters and say "you dont get the big boy radios, here are some cheap fisher price radios instead" chances are he had nothing to do with providing equip for the firefighters..... beaurocrats take care of that crap.

ya the guy is a greasy gino.... but this whole whiny argument is LAME

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I have 3 hobbies: gaming, DJing & correcting maladjusted fools on the internet.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN Yeah, I’d like to know what horrible, scarring incident in your childhood turned you into such an ignorant, intellectual-hating philistine?

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Originally posted by colonelcrisp it takes years of exposure to asbestos to develop lung cancer. What fires do you think firefighters deal with on a daily basis that do not involve burning plastics etc???? are you retarded? they arent putting out camp fires dumbass.... every fire they deal with has pissloads of burning composites and plastics..... the dust masks were for particualtes not for filtering out smoke..concrete duest is extreemly caustic and can cause silicosis. Im quite sure that gulliani didnt look at all the firefighters and say "you dont get the big boy radios, here are some cheap fisher price radios instead" chances are he had nothing to do with providing equip for the firefighters..... beaurocrats take care of that crap. ya the guy is a greasy gino.... but this whole whiny argument is LAME

Regardless of whether short term exposure to asbestos has any adverse health affect, the sheer quantity of asbestos and other toxic substances coming out of the debris of 2 of the world's tallest structures should have been a matter of concern and proper precautions should have been taken.

...

The radio stuff is a bit whiny I admit. They are just putting the blame on Giuliani cause he was the mayor. The "scoop and dump" operation was plain sick IMO. Anyways, I would like to read his response before jumping to any conclusions.

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Originally posted by Omega_M Regardless of whether short term exposure to asbestos has any adverse health affect, the sheer quantity of asbestos and other toxic substances coming out of the debris of 2 of the world's tallest structures should have been a matter of concern and proper precautions should have been taken.

Sure--in hindsight. But I don't think there was much time for sit-down planning the day of the event. Pure chaos.

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Originally posted by Shakka Hmmm...the same way the Democrats were dismissive of the Swift Boat Veterans who actually served in Vietnam, right? Pot meet kettle. Just sayin... Now before Opus jumps all over that comment, it was said for comparative reasons. Not to incite some 18 page article citing response. Re-read my initial response:

The swift boats were a 527 created and funded primarily by partisan political connections. The IAFF is a non-partisan labor union

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Originally posted by josh4 The swift boats were a 527 created and funded primarily by partisan political connections. The IAFF is a non-partisan labor union

Doesn't change the fact that they were Vietnam veterans, does it?

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Originally posted by Shakka Doesn't change the fact that they were Vietnam veterans, does it?

How dare you trash the brave 9/11 fire fighters. You terrorist, why do you hate America?