I'm actually really confused by this. It's clear that there is no way a sustained US campaign can be carried out against any other country right now and everyone in the world knows that. Yet the risks to the already nose-diving dollar are significant if Chavez and Iran move into Juan's, Yen's, or Euro's.

Would an air campaign be an option? Are the CIA operatives gearing up for some Persian sniper action?

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton I think the solution is for a gold or silver standard, and not this credit-based, create money out thin air to lend, standard that we have today. Our dollar will inevitably suffer because of this currupt secretive society. Notice what happened in the 1970's when our money was taken off the gold standard.

I'm not an expert on monetary policy but somewhat interested in the topic. It's obvious that control of the US currency is in the hands of private bankers and this seriously needs to change. However, going back to a gold standard is still up for debate. This is an exerpt from money masters

quote:

Beware of calls to return to a gold standard. Why? Simple. Because never before has so much gold been so concentrated outside of American hands. And never before has so much gold been in the hands of international governmental bodies such as the World Bank and International Monetary Fund. In fact, the IMF now holds more gold then any central bank.

Assuming this is true, then if you go back to gold, the country is still fucked.

quote:

[i] Assuming this is true, then if you go back to gold, the country is still fucked.

We are already f*cked . The question is...Are we going to face the music and feel a little pain NOW while things correct, giving us a fresh start...or are the politicians/bankers going to delay the inevitable by inflating all of the bubbles again...creating more false prosperity, more fake money, more debt, more disruptions to the market..etc

All thinking in Washington is short-term, so I'm betting not a damn thing will get done about our economic situation. We are going to reinflate everything...The DOW will SOAR but the dollar will be worth nearly nothing. In 10 years, a loaf of bread will cost $20.00. The cycle will continue until the people completely lose faith in paper currency and that loaf of bread goes to $200+ Then we will likely have a complete worldwide panic, as people everywhere realize the little paper rectangles they've been working for their entire lives are worth less than a roll of toilet paper.. I'm afraid it's going to take a global depression to bring about the needed political change. We could face up to our mistakes NOW and greatly reduce this pain, but I doubt that is going to happen.

The same goes for any country. Just another conspiracy theory to add to the collection.

Basically you have a choice:
Sit at the bottom of the pile bitching and moaning about the conspiracy of the powerful and rich.
Or get yourself up the pile to the top with the powerful and rich.

___________________
Degen

quote:

Originally posted by Osiris The same goes for any country. Just another conspiracy theory to add to the collection. Basically you have a choice: Sit at the bottom of the pile bitching and moaning about the conspiracy of the powerful and rich. Or get yourself up the pile to the top with the powerful and rich.

This has nothing to do with not being rich and blaming the rich for not being rich. The government is doing things against the law which it itself made up. It's that fact that has us asking who at the top is directing all this madness and why those who call the bluff get labeled a conspiracy nut. People who say that don't know what the they're talking about. First look at the case made, then decide your opinion on it. And if your opinion is contrary, then you simply refuse to accept the obvious reality of it all.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton First look at the case made, then decide your opinion on it. And if your opinion is contrary, then you simply refuse to accept the obvious reality of it all.

Seriously ... one of the stupidest statements I've ever read. So we're supposed to read the facts ... and then objectively make our opinions. Yet if our opinions are contrary ... then we refuse to accept reality?? Do you read what you type or is the semblance of independant objectivity some kind of contrived joke to you? If it's not than why provoke readers to "look" at the "case" at hand and then "decide" something that is obviously fallacious? Well thank you for extending the opportunity for objective choice when there is only one clear answer! Well, I've made numerous statements aobut the Fed in this thread so we all know where I am:

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=1

and another Ron Paul thread that I posted in about returning to the gold standard or operating without the Federal Reserve. I never got intelligible responses worthy of rebuttal. Read my posts and then post a response with some understanding of economics that I can Legitimiatly respond to. Otherwise this uninformed trite is meaningless to me.

Edit: and I don't look at videos. They're hours long, irrelevantly sensational like most mass media, and present few definitive facts. If you can't present your argument in writing don't present it at all. If I'm supposed to take the time and effort to respond to a piece of work that you're spending no effort at all to plagarize than you can spend the time and effort to transcribe it.

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Retro ...

Last edited by occrider on Sep-12-2007 at 05:52

calm down oc, lol

In defense of krypton, I think you interpreted what he was saying wrong

"First look at the case made, then decide your opinion on it. And if your opinion is contrary, then you simply refuse to accept the obvious reality of it all."

He wasn't TELLING people to refuse the reality of things...I think he was just making a statement about what they were doing if they ignore facts. He could have phrased it differently to avoid confusion ("then you are simply refusing to accept the obvious reality").

Oh and since you work in the finance industry, I think you will find the video very interesting. When you find the time, [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Krypton -

As much as I would like this to be true, I still have to take the statements from Freedom to Facism with a large salt block. Despite the apparent merits of the film producer and the characters that he interviews, I was surprised to find that they lacked a very important reference that was completely left out.

I wanted them to leave a reference of the case brief as described by a the women interviewed toward the end of the film about a case of state and federal income so that viewers could look that up themselves, and...they didn't bother to. If you could find that case brief, and if says what the video does, then I will feel compelled to that federal income taxes are a scam. However, if this piece of information, which I presume to be public record can not be found, I would be hard pressed to believe a rambled conspiracy theorist explanation.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider Seriously ... one of the stupidest statements I've ever read. So we're supposed to read the facts ... and then objectively make our opinions. Yet if our opinions are contrary ... then we refuse to accept reality?? Do you read what you type or is the semblance of independant objectivity some kind of contrived joke to you? If it's not than why provoke readers to "look" at the "case" at hand and then "decide" something that is obviously fallacious? Well thank you for extending the opportunity for objective choice when there is only one clear answer! Well, I've made numerous statements aobut the Fed in this thread so we all know where I am: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...d=&pagenumber=1 and another Ron Paul thread that I posted in about returning to the gold standard or operating without the Federal Reserve. I never got intelligible responses worthy of rebuttal. Read my posts and then post a response with some understanding of economics that I can Legitimiatly respond to. Otherwise this uninformed trite is meaningless to me. Edit: and I don't look at videos. They're hours long, irrelevantly sensational like most mass media, and present few definitive facts. If you can't present your argument in writing don't present it at all. If I'm supposed to take the time and effort to respond to a piece of work that you're spending no effort at all to plagarize than you can spend the time and effort to transcribe it.

Maybe a little one-sided, but my argument still stands.

What is this socialism in disguise? The market should decide whats best for the market. Where's the capitalism in giving economic controls to a centrally controlled bank? Who gets the bubble blowers blowing and bails them out when their bubbles burst? Where in the constitution does Congress have the authority to establish a central bank?

Inflation brought on by increasing the money supply, as recently seen by the FED injecting billions of dollars into the monetary system to help the sub-prime losers who deserve to lose everything, is the very anti-thesis of a free market. A central bank controls price levels, not the market, and the market is the only thing that can accurately determine prices based all on supply and demand. I'm not saying we do without some oversight organization of the economy, but this current economic road we're on is not sustainable. The dollar today is worth only $0.04 it was worth when the Fed took over in 1913. What happened to price stability? Wasn't that what they were supposedly created for? The rampant inflation of the 1970's? What was the deal with that? Centrally controlled economies fail in the long run.

The root of the problem is our government is too damn big. There is a psychologically based theory that says when you have other people's money in your management, you tend to be much more wasteful and risky with it. That is what we have in this country. The government has the mindset of unlimited money. The more it gains weight, the harder it is for it to lose it. That is my thought on why reform is so slow in coming. This country can't run on bonds, loans, injections of fiat cash (inflationary) forever.

Progressive taxes and the IRS are the oppressors of the middle class. The myriad of loopholes allow sophisticated high net worth individuals to place their assets in tax deductibles or tax discounted vehicles like stocks, bonds, etc. Why pay 35% tax rate when you can pay at most 15% capitals gains? In fact, if you never sell, what do you pay on returns from dividends, etc? Much less compared to the middle class income earner. This complex confusion just goes to show the curruption of our tax system. Simplification is needed. The bureaucratic IRS with its billion dollar budgets and 100,000 employees needs to be eradicated.

The tax solution is either negative income tax, or fair tax. The negative income tax involves a $10,000 yearly payment to all employed persons. A flat income tax would also be implemented. The higher your income, the more taxes you pay, but if you live below the poverty level, you essentially are getting welfare money from the government. Do the math. This system would better replace this currupt progressive income tax we have now. It was be a step in the road towards no income taxes at all as they are against the constitutional freedoms we're supposed to have. Then, the fair tax would be a flat sales tax levied on all sales transactions. That would include everything that can be owned. Stocks, REITs, goods and services. No longer could the high net worth earners be able to hide their assets from fair taxation. Government spending would be reeled in and would depend on the inherent health of the economy. Less sales = less taxes. No more fraud squads breaking down people's doors, tax evaders, IRS, filing 1040's, audits, etc. What a much simpler system don't you think?!

I don't care if you don't watch the videos or not. A few are closer to an hour long. But most of them are less than 10 minutes. They would much better articulate my views than I can writing them all out. It's too damn time-consuming and complex to have to describe in writing the details of my arguments, so the videos serve this purpose for me. But if you wanted a piece of my arguments in writing, this post is it. I can go on and on and on, but the post would be more like a book.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Krypton - As much as I would like this to be true, I still have to take the statements from Freedom to Facism with a large salt block. Despite the apparent merits of the film producer and the characters that he interviews, I was surprised to find that they lacked a very important reference that was completely left out. I wanted them to leave a reference of the case brief as described by a the women interviewed toward the end of the film about a case of state and federal income so that viewers could look that up themselves, and...they didn't bother to. If you could find that case brief, and if says what the video does, then I will feel compelled to that federal income taxes are a scam. However, if this piece of information, which I presume to be public record can not be found, I would be hard pressed to believe a rambled conspiracy theorist explanation.

IRS mafia - the income tax monster.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Maybe a little one-sided, but my argument still stands. What is this socialism in disguise? The market should decide whats best for the market. Where's the capitalism in giving economic controls to a centrally controlled bank? Who gets the bubble blowers blowing and bails them out when their bubbles burst? Where in the constitution does Congress have the authority to establish a central bank? Inflation brought on by increasing the money supply, as recently seen by the FED injecting billions of dollars into the monetary system to help the sub-prime losers who deserve to lose everything, is the very anti-thesis of a free market. A central bank controls price levels, not the market, and the market is the only thing that can accurately determine prices based all on supply and demand. I'm not saying we do without some oversight organization of the economy, but this current economic road we're on is not sustainable. The dollar today is worth only $0.04 it was worth when the Fed took over in 1913. What happened to price stability? Wasn't that what they were supposedly created for? The rampant inflation of the 1970's? What was the deal with that? Centrally controlled economies fail in the long run. The root of the problem is our government is too damn big. There is a psychologically based theory that says when you have other people's money in your management, you tend to be much more wasteful and risky with it. That is what we have in this country. The government has the mindset of unlimited money. The more it gains weight, the harder it is for it to lose it. That is my thought on why reform is so slow in coming. This country can't run on bonds, loans, injections of fiat cash (inflationary) forever. Progressive taxes and the IRS are the oppressors of the middle class. The myriad of loopholes allow sophisticated high net worth individuals to place their assets in tax deductibles or tax discounted vehicles like stocks, bonds, etc. Why pay 35% tax rate when you can pay at most 15% capitals gains? In fact, if you never sell, what do you pay on returns from dividends, etc? Much less compared to the middle class income earner. This complex confusion just goes to show the curruption of our tax system. Simplification is needed. The bureaucratic IRS with its billion dollar budgets and 100,000 employees needs to be eradicated. The tax solution is either negative income tax, or fair tax. The negative income tax involves a $10,000 yearly payment to all employed persons. A flat income tax would also be implemented. The higher your income, the more taxes you pay, but if you live below the poverty level, you essentially are getting welfare money from the government. Do the math. This system would better replace this currupt progressive income tax we have now. It was be a step in the road towards no income taxes at all as they are against the constitutional freedoms we're supposed to have. Then, the fair tax would be a flat sales tax levied on all sales transactions. That would include everything that can be owned. Stocks, REITs, goods and services. No longer could the high net worth earners be able to hide their assets from fair taxation. Government spending would be reeled in and would depend on the inherent health of the economy. Less sales = less taxes. No more fraud squads breaking down people's doors, tax evaders, IRS, filing 1040's, audits, etc. What a much simpler system don't you think?! I don't care if you don't watch the videos or not. A few are closer to an hour long. But most of them are less than 10 minutes. They would much better articulate my views than I can writing them all out. It's too damn time-consuming and complex to have to describe in writing the details of my arguments, so the videos serve this purpose for me. But if you wanted a piece of my arguments in writing, this post is it. I can go on and on and on, but the post would be more like a book.

I've seen the movie sometime ago.

If everything you just wrote is true, I will tell you that the government is not the problem. The old saying goes, "People get what government they deserve" and it's no different in America. For example: Almost the entire US disagrees with the war, but it doesn't matter because Bush will continue to frolic in the oval office so long as Americans sit on their asses, point fingers and worry about red herring issues.

Is abortion really so important that we have to get all worked up about it? No, it's not. Let's take care of the people in the here in now and not worry about the future generation before we take care of our own.

I absolutely hate the news sometimes because it can be propaganda spewing machine. In one of Micheal Moore's films,there is a part where there is this montage of news stories about how terrorists could strike anywhere, including little towns. Now of course, this never happened or least to my knowledge, but people don't see what the government is doing. I mean, we have movies about this sort of thing like V for Vendetta and the message really couldn't be any louder unless you scream it right into someone's ear.

I remember Louis Black comparing elections to choosing two piles of dog shit, and although you can choose one or the other, you can't really pick neither to vote so then if feels like this grand illusion that the American public is in control, when in reality they have less than they think.

I mean fuck, let's just let a monkey run the country. He'll throw bananas and poo around, but in the end he won't put a knife into the people that feed him.

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quote:

Originally posted by dj_alfi change your avatar for fucks sake.