quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Lets not change the subject. Jihad didn't make Osama bin Laden.

I never suggested it did, however when OBL starts talking about "colonialist empires", he's going way back.
My point was, this particular reference points out that that ideology existed even before OBL.
That's Bush's problem; he's 'going after' the man when he should have been going after the ideology. It's just an easier sell to show someone's picture on the idiot box though.

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r I never suggested it did, however when OBL starts talking about "colonialist empires", he's going way back. My point was, this particular reference points out that that ideology existed even before OBL. That's Bush's problem; he's 'going after' the man when he should have been going after the ideology. It's just an easier sell to show someone's picture on the idiot box though.

Umm, I guess you didn't understand the context.

""And for your information media, during the first years of the war, lost its credibility and manifested itself as a tool of the colonialist empires, and its condition has often been worse than the condition of the media of the dictatorial regimes which march in the caravan of the single leader.""

Colonialist empires refer to those country's who have continuually interfered in the Middle East, who have since the early 1800's with Napolean been interfering the Middle East. It is not a history lesson. Are you dumbing it down? Know thy enemy. Examine it from an objective stance, and see why so many millions over there support the guy. If nobody supported him, then he wouldn't have credibility. But they do, and people listen to his every word in many places. We have to understand that. See why they believe in what they believe, read their mission statement, then read ours, then think about why there is a conflict. These fearful days have been the product of decades of counter-democraticness on the supposedly most democratic countries.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Umm, I guess you didn't understand the context. ""And for your information media, during the first years of the war, lost its credibility and manifested itself as a tool of the colonialist empires, and its condition has often been worse than the condition of the media of the dictatorial regimes which march in the caravan of the single leader."" Colonialist empires refer to those country's who have continuually interfered in the Middle East, who have since the early 1800's with Napolean been interfering the Middle East. It is not a history lesson. Are you dumbing it down? Know thy enemy. Examine it from an objective stance, and see why so many millions over there support the guy. If nobody supported him, then he wouldn't have credibility. But they do, and people listen to his every word in many places. We have to understand that. See why they believe in what they believe, read their mission statement, then read ours, then think about why there is a conflict. These fearful days have been the product of decades of counter-democraticness on the supposedly most democratic countries.

Ok, you and are essentially saying the same thing here.
OBL is giving us a history lesson though; it's his center piece of his whole speech and the gravity for just about every other one he's given.
What other context is there for 'colonialist empires' other than when a country actually had colonies?
He'll even throw in stuff about the crusades!
He's smart. There's no better way to get a people's attention like ruffling up some patriotism, no matter how far back you have to go.
It's his rendition of 'Remember the Alamo'.

I understand OBL's context fine, however his actions are what cement my decision regarding him in particular.
Historically, he may be accurate, however Jihad shouldn't be the answer he's giving because he's included innocent people that had absolutely nothing to do with his past.
Regardless of whether or not he thought he was justified in the murder of thousands, history is filled with many monsters that have given justifications for their cause.

Take Hitler for example regarding the Jews in his homeland:

quote:

Speech delivered by Hitler in Salzburg, 7 or 8 August 1920. (NSDAP meeting) The following quotation is from a shorthand transcript. "This is the first demand we must raise and do [reversal of the Versailles Treaty provisions]: that our people be set free, that these chains be burst asunder, that Germany be once again captain of her soul and master of her destinies, together with all those who want to join Germany. (Applause) And the fulfillment of this first demand will then open up the way for all the other reforms. And here is one thing that perhaps distinguishes us from you [Austrians] as far as our programme is concerned, although it is very much in the spirit of things: our attitude to the Jewish problem. For us, this is not a problem you can turn a blind eye to-one to be solved by small concessions. For us, it is a problem of whether our nation can ever recover its health, whether the Jewish spirit can ever really be eradicated. Don't be misled into thinking you can fight a disease without killing the carrier, without destroying the bacillus. Don't think you can fight racial tuberculosis without taking care to rid the nation of the carrier of that racial tuberculosis. This Jewish contamination will not subside, this poisoning of the nation will not end, until the carrier himself, the Jew, has been banished from our midst. (Applause)

>>Source<<

That's just my opinion though, so I'm not about to actually start siding with this guy regardless of what version of history he's telling us while hiding a gun behind his back.
There are other choices other than Jihad which for whatever reason, is their knee-jerked reaction to everything it seems...

why not just be like Gandhi? WWGD?

___________________
"...End? No, the journey doesn't end here. Death is just another path...one that we all must take.
The grey rain-curtain of this world rolls back, and all change to silver glass...and then you see it...
...white shores...and beyond...the far green country under a swift sunrise."

Wow I cant imagine that being translated on air