Well, I have always liked the 4 year model (though 2 consecutive terms is pushing it), since it allows freshness into the government, which theoretically should spur on progress.

Then again, I never imagined that someone like Bush could come along and single-handedly destroy our country in the span of 5 or 6 short years.

Hey, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.. but when it comes to politics, I imagine every country on the planet has a lot of fixing to do.

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 Proud Cossacs leaving the Motherland? Shocking! I guess must have been from the excess of all the potential Mother Russia had to offer. The fact that once you venture outside of metropolitan areas, such as Moscow or St. Petersburg and end up in slums, with poverty and rampant lack of basic necessities - such as access to reliable utilities (clean running water, electricity, trash removal) - you end up in what the West rarely sees, yet construes nearly 90% or higher of "stanard Russian setting". You see uneducated, unemployed masses with very little opportunities or means to sustain a "normal" life. That's why there's such a large portion of population that's comprised of alchoholics, depressed population, disinfranchised remnants of post-socialist "2nd class citizens", whose country could give two shits about their fate. Many of whom turn to crime, prostutution, extortion, drug trafficking, theft, rape, murder, drug use, alchohol and suicide. Glad to hear it, hope you end up in the true "heartland" of Russia, close to the Cossac stomping grounds, near the "needy people" the Cossacs so heroically protected from bad, stealing, Russia-hatin' Jews: Source: http://www.west.net/~jazz/felshtin/redcross.html yeah.. definitely something to be proud of

Go fuck yourself. I am not Ukrainian, OK? Not all Cossacks (and there were many denominations, for example: Don, Kuban', Terek, Zaporozhye, Altay, etc. Cossacks) were involved in pogroms, just a few brainwashed Ukrainian Cossacks - Gaidamaks, who were manipulated by Ukrainian nationalist movement which was taking advantage of Civil War and fighting for independence.

Bogdan Khmelnitzky - Ukrainian Cossack - ravaged the Jews in mid-1600s when that part of Ukraine was still in Poland/Lithuania's dominion, asshole - and he slaughtered both the Poles and Jews and others who supported Poles! He simply turned to Russia for help to escape Poland's dominion which Russia used for its own purposes ...

I relate to the Kuban Cossacks, never heard of them? The Jewish atrocities were carried out in Ukraine by nationalists who armed a radical Cossack group called Gaidamaks of the Ukrainian Zaporozhye Cossacks (who then in WW2 joined arms with Nazi troops and killed some more). My Kuban Cossacks are not in Ukraine (go check your map). By the way, my family and my grand-parents havent lived as Cossacks since many of Kuban Cossacks were forcefully resettled into cities and into other parts of the country away from traditional Kuban Cossack lands ... you know jack shit about Russia. We weren't involved in Jewish pogroms. Kuban, Don and Terek Cossacks, on the other hand, were bitterly slaughtered by the communists.


You are an f*ckhead for pitting communist and Ukrainian crimes on Russia. Communists killed everyone - Cossacks, Jews, Chechens, Tatars, Russians, Abkhaz, etc., resettling populations, massive crimes against humanity. Ukrainian nationalists killed and slaughtered anyone who opposed their independence drive. Just like their slaughter of Poles in Volhynia, 1919 pogroms were a mistake - and it was carried out by the nationalist fervour of Ukrainian forces who recruited Zaporozhye Cossacks PITTED AGAINST POLES and their Jewish "sympathizers". The ultimate goal was indepedent state between Poland and Russia (and they fought against Russia for another 20-30 years, mainly the Ukrainian Insurgent Army or "UPA", AND Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists).

Other famous Ukrainian massacres of Poles:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massac...les_in_Volhynia

"The Massacre of Poles in Volhynia was an ethnic cleansing conducted in Volhynia (Polish: Wo³yñ) during World War II. In the course of it, up to 80,000 Poles are thought to have been massacred by the nationalist Ukrainian Insurgent Army (Ukrainska Povstanska Armiya, or UPA). This took place in 1943 and 1944, with the bulk of victims reported for summer and autumn 1944."


So go fuck yourself. If you dont know history, shut the fuck up, OK?

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Last edited by Magnetonium on Oct-11-2007 at 13:38

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium RANT RANT RANT, CURSES CURSES CURSES, YADA YADA YADA

Looks like I touched a raw nerve there, eh buddy?

Why don't you have a nice, cool sip of SHUT THE F*CK UP juice from POSHEL NA HUI cup? Davai, davai - pizdui obratno, na rodinu, ubludok ty ne ottesanyi. Patriot herov, blyad'. Gnida ty - vot i svalivai nahui, zhivi v gnil'e, urod!

I implore you to consider these alternatives to visiting TA:

When two Russians get together, they always fight

But I gotta say, emc^2, you should be banned

___________________
"The favorite American pastime is not baseball, it's moral crusades."

quote:

Originally posted by HardTranceProd When two Russians get together, they always fight But I gotta say, emc^2, you should be banned

Here's a puppy, go play with him

Emc is not really Russian. He treats Russia like scum. He'd rather send the country back to the chaos of the 1990s, dubbed the "Real Russian Democracy" where most of the population was poor, crime syndicates ran the country, Yeltsin bombed his own parliament and forcefully changed Constitution and put down impeachment attempt, a land of lawlessness that my family had to leave, along with the famous "Brain Drain" of mid-1990s. Thats progress!

Now, back to the Cossack discussion, since I feel more clear. In addition to my evidence I presented in previous post, the events around the Civil War and their outcomes and crimes cannot be pitted against the Cossacks, like EMC did for the 1919 thing in Ukraine. Why? As the Russian government was deposed, some regions activated their nationalist fervour and decided to deal away with the problems that brewed for many years by fighting brutal wars - like what happened in former Soviet Union once it collapsed (Chechnya, Nagorno Karabach, Abkhazia, Transdnistria, etc.). Because of pride, nationalist aspirations and plans to settle old scores. Heck, same scenarios unfolded in Africa when the imperialists left ... Back to the topic:

In Ukraine, the nationalist party and UPA took advantage of their branch of shocked and demoralized Cossacks who lost their identity and their spiritual leader in St. Petersburg, by convincing some Cossacks to join their ranks to fight for independence, which sounded pretty cool. Cossacks are strong and warry people, so they couldn't sit there and watch chaos unfold without acting. Some Cossack groups refused to join in pogroms. Others, like the Gaidamaks who were very radical Ukrainian branch of Cossacks, decided that it was time to resurrect the Khmel'nitsky days. Once again, as the Bolsheviks were approaching to retake Russia's empire and its lands, Gaidamaks and some other Cossacks were convinced by the nationalists that the Jews were conspired to help the Bolsheviks and end Ukrainian independence. Regrettably, mass murders happened.

Now, that doesnt mean that ALL Cossacks were guilty of these crimes. The reason why those Ukrainian Cossacks massacres the Jews is because after the collapse of Russian government, they were taken advantage of by the local forces, with them they participated in the crimes. But all other Cossacks didnt participate, like the Don, Terek, Altai, Kuban' and even the Orenburg Cossacks. Cossacks were very trusted and feared people, fearless in battle and strong in mind and spirit. They defended Russian frontiers for centuries, that was their job, not settling scores internally. They had a unique culture with their own rituals and ways. They were very respected, achieving many heroic deeds for the country that was probably never going to become without them.

The reason why Bolsheviks won is because Cossacks didnt mobilize in time to fight the Bolsheviks ... how could they? They couldn't imagine ever fighting their own countrymen, and they were hoping things would fix on their own. By the time they realized that the Red tide has turned, the resistance that began was too little too late, and Cossacks were bitterly slaughtered by the Bolsheviks. Very bitterly, I cant even go into details here, its really shocking. A genocide against Cossack people.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium ..Cossacks were bitterly slaughtered by the Bolsheviks. Very bitterly, I cant even go into details here, its really shocking. A genocide against Cossack people.

Interesting how history has a way of turning...

quote:

(Cossack) Chmielnicki was one of the biggest anti-Semites in human history, on par with Hitler. His aim was genocide and his forces murdered an estimated 100,000 Jews in the most horrendous ways: Here is one description (from Yeven Mezulah, pp. 31-32): "Some of them [the Jews] had their skins flayed off them and their flesh was flung to the dogs. The hands and feet of others were cut off and they [their bodies] were flung onto the roadway where carts ran over them and they were trodden underfoot by horse ... And many were buried alive. Children were slaughtered at their mother's bosoms and many children were torn apart like fish. They ripped up the bellies of pregnant women, took out the unborn children, and flung them in their faces. They tore open the bellies of some of them and placed a living cat within the belly and they left them alive thus, first cutting off their hands so that they should not be able to take the living cat out of the belly ... and there was never an unnatural death in the world that they did not inflict upon them."

Source: http://www.aish.com/literacy/jewish...s_of_Poland.asp

lol

great reading, thanks guys

___________________
"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Emc is not really Russian. He treats Russia like scum. He'd rather send the country back to the chaos of the 1990s, dubbed the "Real Russian Democracy" where most of the population was poor, crime syndicates ran the country, Yeltsin bombed his own parliament and forcefully changed Constitution and put down impeachment attempt, a land of lawlessness that my family had to leave, along with the famous "Brain Drain" of mid-1990s. Thats progress!

You have no idea... No, I'm not Russian - I was born in USSR, Ukraine. I also left that hellhole when I was 13, just like you and came with my parents.

I want to love my "old" country - I had many friends I left behind, one of the most beautiful cities in the world, and one of the richest cultures full of classical writers, painters, sculptors, architects, musicians, scientists, phillosophers, and even military leaders. A history rich with adventure, world-impact, and full of vigor. I used to love history - it was my favorite subject. I don't get much practice lately, but I used to fluently read/write/understand Modern, Pre-revolutionary, Medieval and even ancient (circa 700AD) Russian.

In highschool, I fought with American classmate because he told me I was a filthy Russian. I teach my son and will teach my daughter Russian when she's old enough. I consider myself "Russian" by upbringing and my background. My wife's family lives in Moscow, her brother was deported from US to Moscow and he's actually quite happy over there, saying it was a good thing. My friends are in Russia 50% of the time, running prosperous businesses. I take more interst in Russia's politics and affairs than I do in America's.

I think Yeltsin was a destructive force on Russia, he was a brute, zhlob, and alchoholic. A typical mis-representation of what Russia is all about. Now, Putin - with all his "ingenuity" and "brilliance" is still a KGB spook, longing for the days of the Iron Curtain, with very Soviet-like world ambitions.

I cannot entirely place blame on him. U.S. did a large part in quickly occupying the power vacuum that was once occupied by Russia, when USSR fell apart. Russia, being a proud (and quite Imperialist) country could not just idly stand by. Furthermore, a nation full of people who's memory is still fresh with Communist era could not just flip the switch one day and become a "free" country. Several generations of people who were raised in authoritarian regime, learned to rely on it for stability, guaranteed social care, guaranteed employment, guaranteed basic necessities like free education and medical care, subsidised housing, etc. - could not just become free enterpreneurs overnight.

So, it's easy to understand why so many said "f*ck democracy, give us food" and quickly retreated to the relative safety of "USSR, under new management" mentality. Sure there were some freedoms to be sacrificed, but who gives a crap about freedom to vote when there are no viable candidates, the entire system has been built around years of corruption and nepotism? What to aspire for, when there are no opportunities exist but for the ones who can steal the quickest, bribe the most powerful, get the perks of being "untouchable"? How does a common man/woman fend for herself, on her/his own merit?

How does a nation of slaves, used to monarchy or totalitarian dictator who had 1/2 of population in jail and 1/2 of population as jailers, become free?

Not to side track, but I found Matrix (1) to have a deeply profound meaning that could easily be super-imposed on Russia. Especially the part about that there's a certain age, past which the mind cannot accept the reality of being free and cannot be liberated. What's more intersting, relating further to Russia, is that once freed - what is outside the confines of "the matrix"? A world in ruin, full of toxicity and waste? "Nah, thanks", said Cypher - "I'd rather be someone rich and famous in the matrix, rather than poor, hunted bum in the "free world"".

So, in a sense, most Russian's mentality is somewhere along the lines of Cypher - why be hungry and free, when you can be well fed and better off in "the matrix"?

Furthermore, a nation that still has fear and hate encoded in its DNA towards "outsiders" - e.g. rotting, decadent and capitalist west, cannot just do a 180 and say - WOW, WE LOVE AMERICA! Taught to hate borgois, to live as commoners, to have a system where capitalist skills were not valued nor even permitted, we can't expect most Russians to freely embrace the concept of capitalism right away and start chanting WE WANT TO BE CAPITALIST JUST LIKE YOU! A country where people were taught that rich are bad and proletariat is the suffering class that needs to rid the world of the rich and share their (earned) wealth CANNOT BE EXPECTED TO RESPECT THE BASIC CONCEPT OF CAPITALISM - RESPECT FOR PRIVATE PROPERTY AND PROTECTION OF IT BY THE LAW.

You don't need to go very far - just see how Putin "nationalized" Yukos and got rid of a very serious political threat - all in 1 shot, under premise and fabrications that Khodarkovsky "stole" the natural resources from Russian people without paying "market price".

A country where government is the biggest thief and has no respect for private property, has loose concept of "eminent domain" (which is currently unfolding in Sochi and about to start unfolding in Moscow, as Casinos are being forced out of the city) - cannot possibly expect any foreign investor to view the government as nothing more than a big bully, who will let you come and prosper, only to take it away once you do. Typical russian mentality - "what's mine is mine, and what's yours is also mine".

The corruption goes from the lowest government peon to the highest ranks of the government. Abramovich, with his $50 million dollar yacht gifts to V.V. Putin is currently presiding over Chelsea, living in his multi-million dollar mansion, multi-billionaire, free to do whatever the heck he wants. Meanwhile, Khodarkovskiy is in jail, denied basic human rights.

I can go on and on and on but I won't waste any more of my time. Russian people deserve the government they have. After all, you can't have a word "slave" without "SLAV"...

Last edited by emc^2 on Oct-12-2007 at 19:16

Magnetonium, I also find your sig EXCEPTIONALLY ironic, down-right HYPOCRITICAL, considering current state of affairs in Russia and your avid support of Putin. Feel free to cast the first stone, though, Mother Russia Hath Not Sinned, as you shall say.

quote:

Originally posted by emc^2 Magnetonium, I also find your sig EXCEPTIONALLY ironic, down-right HYPOCRITICAL, considering current state of affairs in Russia and your avid support of Putin. Feel free to cast the first stone, though, Mother Russia Hath Not Sinned, as you shall say.

Sigh ... ok, first, I admit that Putin is no angel,he could've achieved so much more (like any leader should in any country, btw) and there are double standards like when it comes to people around Putin like Abramovich - but you dont really expect Putin to jail all the oligarchs, do you? He wont last a month in power. The levels of corruption and crime in Russia right now (still rooted in communist days) are so deep you wouldn't have enough Russian guards to jail them all. He cant jail everyone, the country's prisons are full already - and not with innocent people. He is simply attacking the most dangerous elements, and using other criminals to benefit himself, his goals and the country. And yes, there are people who would like to overthrow all that for "real democracy and people's freedom" *cough* *cough* reminds me of 1917 Revolution. You dont get it, do you - another revolution in Russia wont do it any good. Just look at Georgian and Ukrainian revolutions in the last few years - pretty much decimated and of their progresses and economic growth, and things are still shaky.

You havent actually provided any solutions or positive aspect other than criticizing and brutalizing Russia, thats very effective and productive. Surely, things arent perfect, and Russia has had a very violent and brutal history. You have to admit, that Putin's democracy is the best one Russia has had to date. Time to build on that. Russia cant be fixed overnight and in one term, it will take decades. Your focus is an example of forces that are undermining Russia from within and from outside. Thats how Russia is struggling, because even some Russians are against Russia. There's no unity. Thats worse than foreign intervention. No matter how bad things are over there, over time criminal elements will be reduced, weakened and true democracy will set in.


OK, how am I hypocritical? Tell me, which great experienced and smart Russian politician there's in Russia right now who is even capable of replacing Putin and continuing his success? Ever ask that question to yourself? Please, dont give me any name of Western puppets who will only seek to secure things for their counterparts abroad, as Yeltsin's cronies easily sold off for fire prices lots of critical resources, like oil and gas fields (Sakhalin-1, for example). He wasnt a Russian leader. He was merely a despotic puppet.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture