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Originally posted by ams.rld We begin to kill everyone....

luckily, people are quickly catching on to those plans so unless your traitorous little pansy asses start retreating rather quickly into your deep underground bunkers (or in the case of Dubya's clan - to his daddy's new 98,000 acre ranch in Paraguay), they're probably going to start killing you back.

Last edited by Trancer-X on Oct-13-2007 at 20:39

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Originally posted by Trancer-X luckily, people are quickly catching on to those plans so unless your traitorous little pansy asses start retreating rather quickly into your deep underground bunkers (or in the case of Dubya's clan - to his new 98,000 acre ranch in Paraguay), they're probably going to start killing you back.

Wait wait I am not a traitor in that sense. I want change. I want to see the US strong where their is actual freedom and less of a rat race. But that won't happen until there is a big war on our land and people suffer. If there is no war=than there will be no change. As long as the war is on our land....

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Originally posted by ams.rld Wait wait I am not a traitor in that sense. I want change. I want to see the US strong where their is actual freedom and less of a rat race. But that won't happen until there is a big war on our land and people suffer. If there is no war=than there will be no change. As long as the war is on our land....

My apologies. That wasn't necessarily aimed at you but rather towards the fascist f***s whose goal is the enslavement of humanity.

They're playing us all like pawns in a game but many of us have awoken to that very fact.

War isn't necessary, btw. The path to enlightenment is through knowledge (spiritual AND material.)

Plotinus and Philo each called it, "Nous" but Philo went on to elaborate that the pursuit of material or worldly knowledge alone (human nous) will only lead to moral turpitude.

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The soul is first aroused by the stimuli of sensual pleasures; it begins to turn toward them, and then becomes more and more involved. It becomes devoted to the body, and begins to lead an intolerable life (βίος ἄβίωτος). It is inflamed and excited by irrational impulses. Its condition is restless and painful. The sensibility endures, according to Gen. iii.16, great pain. A continual inner void produces a lasting desire which is never satisfied. All the higher aspirations after God and virtue are stilled. The end is complete moral turpitude, the annihilation of all sense of duty, the corruption of the entire soul: not a particle of the soul that might heal the rest remains whole. The worst consequence of this moral death is, according to Philo, absolute ignorance and the loss of the power of judgment. Sensual things are placed above spiritual; and wealth is regarded as the highest good. Too great a value especially is placed upon the human nous; and things are wrongly judged. Man in his folly even opposes God, and thinks to scale heaven and subjugate the entire earth. In the field of politics, for example, he attempts to rise from the position of leader of the people to that of ruler (Philo cites Joseph as a type of this kind). Sensual man generally employs his intellectual powers for sophistry, perverting words and destroying truth. The biblical patriarch Abraham is seen by Philo as the symbol of man leaving sensuality to turn to reason[12]. Philo holds that there are three methods whereby one can rise toward the divine: through teaching, through practise (ἄσκησις), and through natural goodness (ὁσιότης). (Via: Wikipedia)

I really doubt there will be any type of secessionist movement. Americans are too dumb these days to organize something like that. The continued decline of our educational system combined with dozens of new reality tv shows and other "entertainment" on the couch = ignorant, fat, lazy, and apathetic citizens who are not ready to take part in a violent revolution...no matter how bad things get.

Yes, but the fate of the masses relies on the few who are willing to do something. Once in power the authorities will do what they are told to do like now and always.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I really doubt there will be any type of secessionist movement. Americans are too dumb these days to organize something like that. The continued decline of our educational system combined with dozens of new reality tv shows and other "entertainment" on the couch = ignorant, fat, lazy, and apathetic citizens who are not ready to take part in a violent revolution...no matter how bad things get.

Politicians were the cause of secession, not the American people, during the civil war, it was a legal political process, and not a movement. We can say that this, "Ignorant, fat, lazy, and apathetic" (I agree, btw) lifestyle the American citizens have will enable state governments to do as they please, which can include anything from secession (More likely in the future), to giving up all states' rights to the federal government (Which I doubt would happen).

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"You won a new refrigerator, great! Where you gonna put it?" - Tony Danza

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I really doubt there will be any type of secessionist movement. Americans are too dumb these days to organize something like that. The continued decline of our educational system combined with dozens of new reality tv shows and other "entertainment" on the couch = ignorant, fat, lazy, and apathetic citizens who are not ready to take part in a violent revolution...no matter how bad things get.

Maybe it's time to move to Vermont

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In Vermont, nascent secession movement gains traction By John Curran, Associated Press Writer | June 3, 2007 MONTPELIER, Vt. --At Riverwalk Records, the all-vinyl record store just down the street from the state Capitol, the black "US Out of Vt.!" T-shirts are among the hottest sellers. But to some people in Vermont, the idea is bigger than a $20 novelty. They want Vermont to secede from the United States -- peacefully, of course. Disillusioned by what they call an empire about to fall, a small cadre of writers and academics is plotting political strategy and planting the seeds of separatism. They've published a "Green Mountain Manifesto" subtitled "Why and How Tiny Vermont Might Help Save America From Itself by Seceding from the Union." They hope to put the question before citizens at Town Meeting Day next March, eventually persuading the state Legislature to declare independence, returning Vermont to the status it held from 1777 to 1791. Whether it's likely is another question. But the idea has found plenty of sympathetic ears in Vermont, a left-leaning state that said yes to civil unions, no to slavery (before any other) and last year elected a socialist to the U.S. Senate. About 300 people turned out for a 2005 secession convention in the Statehouse, and plans for a second one are in the works. A poll this year by the University of Vermont's Center for Rural Studies found that 13 percent of those surveyed support secession, up from 8 percent a year before. "The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable -- it's too big, it's too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens," said Rob Williams, editor of Vermont Commons, a quarterly newspaper dedicated to secession. "Congress and the executive branch are being run by the multinationals. We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of militarism and war. If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what's left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire." Such movements have a long history. Key West, Fla., staged a mock secession from America in the 1980s. The Town of Killington, Vt., tried to break away and join New Hampshire in 2004, and Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina and Texas all have some form of secession organizations today. The Vermont movement, which is being pushed by several different groups, has been bubbling up for years but has gained new traction in the wake of disenchantment over the Iraq war, rising oil prices and the formation of the pro-secession groups. Among its architects: --Thomas Naylor, 70, a retired Duke University economics professor and author who wrote the manifesto and founded Second Vermont Republic, a group pressing for secession, in 2003. --author Kirkpatrick Sale, 69, founder of the Middlebury Institute, a Cold Spring, N.Y., think tank that hosted a North American Separatist Convention that drew representatives from 16 organizations last fall in Burlington. The group is co-sponsoring another one Oct. 3-4 in Chattanooga, Tenn. --author Frank Bryan, 65, a professor at the University of Vermont who has championed the cause for years. Naylor's 112-page manifesto contains precious little explanation of how Vermont would do without federal aid and programs when it comes to security, education and social programs. Some in the movement foresee a Vermont with its own currency and passports, for example, and some form of representative government formed once the secession has taken place. The cachet of secession would make the new republic a magnet, Bryan said recently during a strategy session with organizers in Naylor's home. "People would obviously relish coming to the Republic of Vermont, the Switzerland of North America," he said. "Christ, you couldn't keep them away." But there are plenty of skeptics. "It doesn't make economic sense, it doesn't make political sense, it doesn't make historical sense. Other than that, it's a good idea," said Paul Gillies, a lawyer and Vermont historian. While neither the Vermont Constitution nor the U.S. Constitution forbids secession per se, few think it's viable. "I always thought the Civil War settled that," said Russell Wheeler, a constitutional law expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. "If Vermont had a powerful enough army and said, `We're leaving the union,' and the national government said, `No, you're not,' and they fought a war over it and Vermont won, then you could say Vermont proved the point. But that's not going to happen," he said. For now, the would-be secessionists are hoping to draw enough support to get the question on Town Meeting Day agendas. "We're normal human beings," said Williams, 39, a history professor at Champlain College. "But we're serious about this. We want people in Vermont to think about the options going forward. Do you want to stay in an empire that's in deep trouble?" -------- Second Vermont Republic: http://www.vermontrepublic.org/ Middlebury Institute: http://middleburyinstitute.org/ Free Vermont.net: http://www.freevermont.net (Original source)

If you ask me, I think you will see the overall decline of the nation-state as countries give up sovereignty to over-arching transnational entities and privatized corporations that specialize in the functions of government. Corporations like Blackwater, Aegis, Halliburton, etc. will become providers of security, welfare, healthcare, and education and will replace the state as semi-autonomous entities within an over-arching global governance system. This could be highly problematic because the corporate entities will have no loyalties or accountability to anything other than their board of directors who are motivated completely by profit. In places like Africa, you are already seeing corporations move in on week governments and civil societies and replacing critical components of governance - privatized security in Liberia, nationalized industries in Zambia being outsourced to international conglomerates, social welfare being conducted by NGO's and now for-profit private corporations like Booz Allen Hamilton and Chemonics all across the continent: and all of these have serious implications. Is a private security firm really accountable to the government of Liberia that they are contracted to protect, and can they resist the incentives behind plundering the country of resources and ignoring human rights, like the national military did? The foreign privatization of domestic industries in Zambia has led to a collapse in worker's rights and the elimination of domestic competition. And when someone profits in the humanitarian industry... at who's expense does that come? Only a matter of time before the West follows these trends.

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A slightly different, and more apocalyptic, picture of the future:

The Coming Anarchy
Robert D. Kaplan

Tagline... how scarcity, overpopulation, tribalism and disease are rapidly destroying the social fabric of our planet.

http://dieoff.org/page67.htm



One of the most thought-provoking, controversial reads in the last 20 years. I personally think a lot of it is bollocks and very Orientalist, but nonetheless there are some concerns to be addressed.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I really doubt there will be any type of secessionist movement. Americans are too dumb these days to organize something like that. The continued decline of our educational system combined with dozens of new reality tv shows and other "entertainment" on the couch = ignorant, fat, lazy, and apathetic citizens who are not ready to take part in a violent revolution...no matter how bad things get.

The methods of real wars in America have shifted from guns and destruction to words and information.

You can still be killed for waging this war, but the revolution still continues to exist as it is needed in more esoteric, abstract mindscapes. It will have long lasting results, political results, and enact change, in its own way.

Many of us here, just for questioning the system, could be considered "dangerous" guerilla revolutionaries.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt In the next 15 years, privacy will be dead. We will have cameras on most street corners in medium and large cities. GPS systems will be mandatory in all cars, a federal RFID chip will be planted in every driver's license. In the name of the "war on terror", the Echelon phone monitoring system will be expanded...The feds will be listening in to all private conversations and scanning all emails for key words that may indicate "questionable" behavior or beliefs.. The government will use this data to compile a list of 'troublesome' Americans to be detained if and when a grassroots rebellion starts.. what happens next... ?

This is all happening already, except to lesser degrees than what you suggest.

There is a reason that almost all mathematicians are hired by the government. They don't even have to know you to be able to recognize your presence in an area by your phone tendencies, your food choices, your driving regularities.

The only escape, a sanctuary really, is to embrace a little bit of chaos in your day to day.