Yeah, the original video was posted a while ago. Everyone with a modicum of common sense agreed that (a) it was clearly staged, (b) the cops followed process (as MP explained above me), and (c) he deserved every volt and then some. Too bad that some people - and I'm not at all surprised to see whom - will never accept any form of "protest" as over-the-top or simply illegal, as long as the douchebag is ranting about some liberal pet cause or conspiracy theory.

Personally, I love to see the numbnuts get the beatdown (or the shock). And a pretty funny mix, the OJ references were classic.

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you guys are all pretty funny. that it was staged and that it was a "liberal" protest is 100% irrelevant to the method of force CHOSEN to be used by the police (legal or not).

so, I guess before tasers were issued, the police just had an unbelievably more dangerous job and were incapable of safely subduing one unarmed, non-violent (yet flailing and non-compliant) individual with the assistance of multiple officers?

riiiiight.

properly trained, competent officers should have had much less trouble subduing one person (of that guy's size and strength) if they are using the right techniques.

but hey, why bother when you can just pull out the taser, right?

there seemed to be no sense of urgency to subdue and remove him as it appears that no one in the crowd made any move to assist or also become disruptive...so it doesn't seem that this was a safety issue for the officers, other than removing this one guy.

It also appears that it was only when the taser was pulled out and used that another person could be heard shouting in his defense and then being told to stay back by the police. IF ANYTHING, they made the group situation worse in using what I feel is excessive (legal or not) force.

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Originally posted by MarkT you guys are all pretty funny. that it was staged and that it was a "liberal" protest is 100% irrelevant to the method of force CHOSEN to be used by the police (legal or not). so, I guess before tasers were issued, the police just had an unbelievably more dangerous job and were incapable of safely subduing one unarmed, non-violent (yet flailing and non-compliant) individual with the assistance of multiple officers? riiiiight.

Resisting arrest is NOT non violent.

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properly trained, competent officers should have had much less trouble subduing one person (of that guy's size and strength) if they are using the right techniques.

The dude was pretty much pinned down by the cops, but he still showed willingness to resist the cops. The cops aren't trained in the Vulcan neck pinch.

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but hey, why bother when you can just pull out the taser, right?

would you rather the cops start beating him with a baton? because that's one of the other option available.

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there seemed to be no sense of urgency to subdue and remove him as it appears that no one in the crowd made any move to assist or also become disruptive...so it doesn't seem that this was a safety issue for the officers, other than removing this one guy.

slow is smooth. smooth is fast. far as I can tell, the cops were doing their job methodically adapting to the situation. why hurry and risk mucking up when it seems that they can take their time to do the job right?

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It also appears that it was only when the taser was pulled out and used that another person could be heard shouting in his defense and then being told to stay back by the police. IF ANYTHING, they made the group situation worse in using what I feel is excessive (legal or not) force.

that's your opinion, and of course, you can interpret anyway you can

the cops do not want to lose control of the situation and have some sort of mob mentality go against them. if they felt that the crowd might get involved and needed to use the taser to get this dude out of the way, well, I still feel it's justified.

I don't know exactly how much you know about police procedure but as someone with almost 6 yrs of experience in training for this stuff, I can tell you that in my view, the cops took proper steps in applying more force to the situation and since they can justify their use of force every step, they'll probably get off free from any investigations

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Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by MarkT the guy is a bit of a tard, but come on...that was a disgusting abuse of force. there is no fucking way that a group of cops can't subdue a skinny, unarmed twat without needing to shock his ass. that's fucking ridiculous and they deserve to be sanctioned, if not found criminally guilty. that no one in the audience, until the guy was tasered (and even then only shouting at the cops) came to his defense was fucking pathetic.

you gotta be kidding me lol? the dude is taller then any of those cops, and he's not skinny. what do you know what it is like being on the force, what if this so called skinny unarmed twat managed to grab one of the officers gun and shot someone, would it be ok then? after the fact, when you're at a situation you don't take chances period.

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Originally posted by EvilTree would you rather the cops start beating him with a baton? because that's one of the other option available.

Ahhh but that's the question, isn't it?

IF the tazer wasn't there (ie the cops didn't have it), what would the cops have done then? Would they kick the guy with their feet? Would they use the batons? Would they shoot him? Or would they just grab the guy by his arms and drag him out of the room?

The tazer doesn't leave the marks (ie bruises), so hey, it's ok, just use that - though it's common knowledge that it's actually more painful that a hit with a baton stick. And it is potentially lethal (there are cases where people have died from it).

Tazing down an intoxicated adult male that tries to punch a cop is OK. Tazing an adolescent prick that is being a moron in a public place, while pinned down by at least 3 cops, is NOT OK.

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Originally posted by Superstring The tazer doesn't leave the marks (ie bruises), so hey, it's ok, just use that - though it's common knowledge that it's actually more painful that a hit with a baton stick. And it is potentially lethal (there are cases where people have died from it).

yes I'm quite aware of that. and it's really in dispute whether it's the taser that's the cause of death, or drugs/chemicals/unknown medical conditions being the primary factor in those deaths. (another taser related death in Vancouver just the other day and on today's papers)

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Tazing down an intoxicated adult male that tries to punch a cop is OK. Tazing an adolescent prick that is being a moron in a public place, while pinned down by at least 3 cops, is NOT OK.

I'm curious to what method would you have used to stop this dude who is clearly struggling and resisting arrest and showing willingness to use force against the cops, while the cops have to do their job and take this guy out of the building and not be harmed themselves.

cops don't get paid to get hurt

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by EvilTree yes I'm quite aware of that. and it's really in dispute whether it's the taser that's the cause of death, or drugs/chemicals/unknown medical conditions being the primary factor in those deaths. (another taser related death in Vancouver just the other day and on today's papers) I'm curious to what method would you have used to stop this dude who is clearly struggling and resisting arrest and showing willingness to use force against the cops, while the cops have to do their job and take this guy out of the building and not be harmed themselves. cops don't get paid to get hurt

Interesting. Here's what I think: Cops get paid to correctly assess the situation and, based on that assessment, to bring the confrontation a peaceful close, with as little disturbance and pain to individuals involved (including themselves of course).

You're asking what I would have used? NOTHING.

It's a political rally. If a person is making a jackass of themselves and screaming, I would turn off their mike and let the person scream for 3-4 minutes. They're hurting their own cause. Eventually they would quit, and I would move on (I do think that's what Kerry wanted to do anyway, he never asked for cops to be involved). Why on earth would you involve cops unless a person becomes a physical threat is beyond me...

But hey, next time you see a guy being a bit jackass at a political rally, feel free to taze him - the precedent has been set.

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Originally posted by Superstring Interesting. Here's what I think: Cops get paid to correctly assess the situation and, based on that assessment, to bring the confrontation a peaceful close, with as little disturbance and pain to individuals involved (including themselves of course).

you're correct. what I said was only part of the whole thing

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You're asking what I would have used? NOTHING. It's a political rally. If a person is making a jackass of themselves and screaming, I would turn off their mike and let the person scream for 3-4 minutes. They're hurting their own cause. Eventually they would quit, and I would move on (I do think that's what Kerry wanted to do anyway, he never asked for cops to be involved). Why on earth would you involve cops unless a person becomes a physical threat is beyond me... But hey, next time you see a guy being a bit jackass at a political rally, feel free to taze him - the precedent has been set.

dude's making a political statement... in a private property.

now I dunno if the cops were acting on their own, or whoever is in charge of the building asked the cops to remove this dude from the property, then I can see the cops getting involved.

your freedom of speech does not extend in other people's houses. feel free to rant and rave in a public place, but not in my house, or other people's house where you're not welcome

I can see the cops being a bit more sensitive with such high profile figure as Gore being involved, because who knows. celebs tend to attract nutcases now and then

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quote:

Originally posted by chinamon not true. i say "ugh" but i am a tranny.

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Originally posted by kotsy lol colour me retarded

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Originally posted by Superstring I would turn off their mike and let the person scream for 3-4 minutes. They're hurting their own cause. Eventually they would quit, and I would move on (I do think that's what Kerry wanted to do anyway, he never asked for cops to be involved). Why on earth would you involve cops unless a person becomes a physical threat is beyond me...

that guy did not look like he would quit. if you turned off his mic he would begin to yell freedom of speech shit and it would carry out for a lot longer than 3-4 minutes. this guy was clearly there to cause a ruckus, not to ask a question that was privileged to him. he abused that chance and because of that was asked to leave. when he refused and began to yell and become aggressive, that was when the police came to deal with him. obviously using a taser is a big deal but put yourself in the cops shoes, their duty is to keep the peace at such an event. this guy was causing a scene. he continued to resist and was given fair warning with the taser but chose to continue. it was his fault for not shutting up

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um...a Vulcan neck pinch, lol.

anyone competent in limb manipulation and proper use of leverage could likely have subdued this guy on their own. That a group of trained cops could not subdue and cuff or zip tie him without the use of a taser suggests to me that they are either poorly trained or poorly executed their training.

you don't need to be bigger and you don't need to be stronger. you do need to know wtf you're doing though.

I'm sure they won't face any consequences...the regulations on taser use appear to be woefully vague and seems to be pretty much left up to officer discretion.

I find it funny (/sarcasm) that people here support the taser use in this case. That this was staged is 100% irrelevant when discussing appropriate use of force by the police, btw.

jeez...imagine he had a friend with him...that GROUP of cops would apparently have been so overwhelmed, I guess they would have had to draw their firearms to control the situation?

x 100

the last I'll talk about it...it's obviously a matter of opinion and I'm not accpeting that this was the only or best option in this case.

edit: here's an example of when it DOES seem more appropriate to use a taser...and yet still had terrible consquences. The man appears to have been more violent and appears to have reaching to throw something (i.e. an immediate threat, unlike a guy who was already on the ground, unarmed with anything, and surrounded by cops)

http://www.thestar.com/News/Canada/article/266811

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Tasered man dies in Vancouver airport scrap Oct 15, 2007 04:30 AM Elianna Lev THE CANADIAN PRESS VANCOUVER–A man who acted erratically after arriving at Vancouver International Airport early yesterday died after police used a Taser on him. Sgt. Pierre Lemaitre said the man was out of control, sweating profusely and yelling in what was believed to be an Eastern European language. "He was pounding on the glass windows that were there, he actually grabbed a computer at one of the work desks and threw that to the ground," he said. Airport security called the RCMP, who were one level above, to help contain the man. When they arrived, officers tried to motion to the man, who didn't appear to speak English, to calm down and put his hands on a desk. Police said the man didn't respond to their requests and reached to throw something. It was at that point an officer used a Taser on the 40-year-old twice in an attempt to immobilize him. However, Lemaitre said the man continued to be combative. "(The Taser) didn't seem to have any kind of effect on him," he said. Police held the man down in an attempt to subdue him, and he was handcuffed. The man, who was still flailing, then lapsed into unconsciousness. He died shortly after paramedics arrived. A coroner is investigating and a toxicology report will be done to determine whether there were drugs in the man's system. "We don't know if it was intoxication," said Lemaitre. "It was certainly not normal behaviour. An autopsy from the coroner's office is going to be of great help to us to determine if it was alcohol or drugs or some other kind of medical condition." Because the man died while at the hands of police, the Commission for Public Complaints will investigate. Investigators will determine where the man came from and what he may have been doing prior to the incident. Interpol will be contacted to verify the man's identity. He was travelling with identification. Lemaitre said the man appeared to be alone. International arrivals had been rerouted, but there were no delays in flight schedules.

Last edited by MarkT on Oct-15-2007 at 21:15

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Originally posted by MarkT um...a Vulcan NERVE pinch, lol.

fixed. come on yohan.. i thought u more of a trekkie than that

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