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Originally posted by Magnetonium Ask yourself this important question - how come immigrants from other countries like Russia, Ukraine, China, eastern bloc dont do such violent acts? WHY its just Muslim immigrants in Europe that do this? Is it really a coincidence? ]

Umm..are you sure about that? I have read articles on eastern europeans killing innocent people or raping women in western europe all the time. It is human nature for people to act so violently and color or religion has nothing to do with it. Some people just choose the life of violence rather than something more decent.
I have a relative who works in Saudi Arabia and he says the clerks encourage for muslims to kill westerners because they are white and christian. He told me clerks always encourage people to go overseas and kill christians. When Saudi Arabia is promoting stability in their lands it means they have funded their "nuts" to go overseas to places like Iraq and kill soldiers. Muslim is a fucked up religion worsened by extremists who are the clerks. One of their prayers says that the only time their sword should be down during prayer and that Allah will understand why they dropped their sword.

Heh, if you really wanna know how "civilised" Russians are click here:

http://www.youtube.com/results.php?...ssian+hooligans

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Originally posted by ams.rld Umm..are you sure about that? I have read articles on eastern europeans killing innocent people or raping women in western europe all the time. It is human nature for people to act so violently and color or religion has nothing to do with it. Some people just choose the life of violence rather than something more decent. I have a relative who works in Saudi Arabia and he says the clerks encourage for muslims to kill westerners because they are white and christian. He told me clerks always encourage people to go overseas and kill christians. When Saudi Arabia is promoting stability in their lands it means they have funded their "nuts" to go overseas to places like Iraq and kill soldiers. Muslim is a fucked up religion worsened by extremists who are the clerks. One of their prayers says that the only time their sword should be down during prayer and that Allah will understand why they dropped their sword.

Well, people of all cultures and religions are prone to crime. I was merely talking about these "protests". Many thousands of Russian immigrants live in Europe. But you dont see them complaining and rioting. Individually, of course some have done crimes, rapes whatever, but they dont go out as an ethnic group and ransack shops.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Well, people of all cultures and religions are prone to crime. I was merely talking about these "protests". Many thousands of Russian immigrants live in Europe. But you dont see them complaining and rioting. Individually, of course some have done crimes, rapes whatever, but they dont go out as an ethnic group and ransack shops.

No but as an ethnic group they go out and spew hatred against gays and different colors. The Russian community in San Diego protested against gay pride and asked for the city council to not allow for their to be a celebration. I know you may not like hearing about it. But Russians' on an individual basis commit more crime than a muslim. But the muslims might act up whilst they are in a group.

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Originally posted by George Smiley I'll post more on this subject when I have more time to read people's sources etc, but one thing I will say now is that to lump all "Muslim" riots into one category without looking at the individual reasons why these riots took place in the first place is just dumb. The premise of this thread is that these riots are somehow all connected to religion rather than immigration/assmilation issues. The French riots had nothing to do with religion but rather a hatred of the police by the population of the poorest suburbs of Paris (and we all know immigrants tend to find themselves living in the poorest areas, or ghettos if you will, and therefore all the problems associated with that), the British riots, again, had nothing to do with religion but were battles between members of the Asian community and the Nazis. Of course, there have been riots that WERE to do with religion - the Danish cartoon protests spring to mind as obvious candidates, but to attempt to connect those riots to the ones in France are rediculous, as there simply is no connection (unless of course you're pursuing a particular agenda) Somebody mentioned discontent against the state warrents lawsuits protests, not riots. True, maybe, but this is Europe and people tend to be more radically left wing than their counterparts in America etc and because of that going through "state means" to find a solution to problems isn't always the best option to them. During the early 90s there were huge riots across the UK to protest against a TAX! Riots with the police occured during the miners strikes. These were all committed by the indeginous community - nothing to do with religion - and lets not forget the LA riots in America! My point: Just because riots take place and the people taking part happen to be born Muslims, it does not neccessarily (read usually) mean that Islam is the root cause of the riots. And certainly to construct a list of riots committed by Muslims and attempt to link them is idiotic because there are no comparisons and they all have their own localised reasons...

Yeah yeah, I already mentioned that these youths dont live in the best neighbourhoods. But guess what - why arent they doing something about it? Why dont they get up, go to school, work and study hard to get education, jobs, and not be whiners about it? They are immigrants - they should be happy that they were given a CHANCE to start a new life in a different country. Its THEIR duty to take that and build on it. It shouldn't be a burden of the native population. If they dont like living in Belgium, they should go back to Turkey or whatever, I am sure its nicer there.

Immigrants here in Canada WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF to get ahead in life. My dad didnt just sit and complain and wave Russian flags and protest on the streets for not getting help - he ruined his health, risked his life by spending countless days and nights building a life and family. He didnt have time for riots/protests.

The problem with these immigrant communities is that they refuse to integrate with the country. Out of fear of losing touch with their past (which was the reason they immigrated) they group like cattle and live in secluded communities and then pressure the government to pay for these communities. Its insulting. You know how many Canadian (non-immigrant) communities dont even get funding??? And these immigrants in Belgium want to be treated SPECIAL! They need a reality check, I dont want my tax dollars paying to keep these people happy - they need us, not the other way around. If they have education then yes, help is often given. Noone gave a rats ass when my dad had to work his first job in Canada in a recycling plant working endless hours just to stay in the country. He ruined his health as a result. But now he has a good job and all, 10 years later.

In Europe, its often enough when you'll hear of immigrants living in the slums. In North America, immigrants living as homeless people or in slums is rare - they tend to end up having the best jobs because they're determined to get education, jobs and build life.

There are many Muslims that have integrated into European communities and live quite happy, and they didnt lose their culture. But there are others who want to build another Turkey or Morocco in Europe. There's more to this violence, George, I've been following it for years. Most times police cant even touch these immigrant communities. And Belgians got sick of the crap, and rightfully why is it their duty to integrate people who would rather live as secluded Turkish community?

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by ams.rld No but as an ethnic group they go out and spew hatred against gays and different colors. The Russian community in San Diego protested against gay pride and asked for the city council to not allow for their to be a celebration. I know you may not like hearing about it. But Russians' on an individual basis commit more crime than a muslim. But the muslims might act up whilst they are in a group.

Did they go out and ransack shops? Attack people with knifes? Burn cars? Loot businesses?

Everyone complains. Thats not the point of my discussion though. My local Canadian community complains to the MP's all the time. But they dont go out and loot shops and attack innocent bystanders when things are not done their way. I am not talking about individual crimes, I dont think any statistics can show that based on cultural views violence is high. But then again, look at the violence in Toronto, and see how many Russians are part of the wave of shootings thats going around there, Firestarter can be my guest and explain it for you ... I bet you didnt hear that.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

My point is that these people should drop their bullshit and do whatever it takes to build happy lives. Its easy to blame others for your own lack of determination. In Canada and North America, Muslims for a huge part have their own stores, are doctors nurses, etc. etc. etc. Heck, many Canadians live on welfare - not the case for these hard-working immigrants. We have huge respect for them. My good friend Abrar, who is a Muslim and his parents are immigrants - they have one hell of a house in a suburb with a Mercedez Benz and huge best widescreen TV, etc. etc. I dont even have that.

I guess the society is somewhat ar fault in Europe, because there'a a huge division, a great difference between European and North American immigrant communities. But by studying at this ethnic conflict over the last few years it became apparent to me that these riots are just fun way for some folks to imitate other riots in Europe to pit their own problems on the main population. These people look for every excuse in the book to launch violence against the main population.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] Yeah yeah, I already mentioned that these youths dont live in the best neighbourhoods. But guess what - why arent they doing something about it? Why dont they get up, go to school, work and study hard to get education, jobs, and not be whiners about it? They are immigrants - they should be happy that they were given a CHANCE to start a new life in a different country.

Erm are you 100% sure all the groups you mentioned are "immigrants"? I know for a fact that the British and French riots were not committed by immigrants but by British and French nationals, and I would imagine that when the riots concern youths, they would be nationals of the other countries you mention as well (altho I'm not sure)

So baring that in mind, and following your logic (that non-whites = immigrants), your comments that immigrants are all wealthy, successful and don't live in slums in America/Canada is wrong because shit loads of blacks and Spanish live in the most deprived inner city suberbs of most American cities, and after all, they are immigrants from Africa and Spain, aren't they?

Anyway, riots happen in EVERY country, usually for social reasons, and I don't see much difference between these riots or the LA riots (LA is in America by the way), I certainly don't see these riots as some kind of harmonious action by Muslims. The only exception are the Danish cartoon riots and that is a completely different kettle of fish than the other riots you refer to.

Face facts - those at the bottom of the social ladder have rioted throughout history to protest against the social conditions they have to endure. This has nothing to do with race, nationality or religion, but everything to do with the dire economic situation the poorest face, and it just so happens that communities with immigrant origins tend to find themselves at the poorest end of society and hence, are more liable to rioting to protest this situation...

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Originally posted by Magnetonium why arent they doing something about it? Why dont they get up, go to school, work and study hard to get education, jobs, and not be whiners about it?

You tell me why

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Originally posted by Magnetonium In Canada and North America, Muslims for a huge part have their own stores, are doctors nurses, etc. etc. etc. Heck, many Canadians live on welfare - not the case for these hard-working immigrants.

Care to explain how this is any different to Europe? Cos as far as I'm concerned that description can apply equally to any European country...

Oh by the way, while we're in the business of stereotyping immigrants...

Do you know why Russian immigrants don't riot? Do you know why they're relitively wealthy?

Because all the Russian female immigrants are prostitutes and all the men are either in the mafia or kidnap children in Eastern Europe and force them to become child prostitues

Discuss

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Originally posted by George Smiley Erm are you 100% sure all the groups you mentioned are "immigrants"? I know for a fact that the British and French riots were not committed by immigrants but by British and French nationals, and I would imagine that when the riots concern youths, they would be nationals of the other countries you mention as well (altho I'm not sure) So baring that in mind, and following your logic (that non-whites = immigrants), your comments that immigrants are all wealthy, successful and don't live in slums in America/Canada is wrong because shit loads of blacks and Spanish live in the most deprived inner city suberbs of most American cities, and after all, they are immigrants from Africa and Spain, aren't they? Anyway, riots happen in EVERY country, usually for social reasons, and I don't see much difference between these riots or the LA riots (LA is in America by the way), I certainly don't see these riots as some kind of harmonious action by Muslims. The only exception are the Danish cartoon riots and that is a completely different kettle of fish than the other riots you refer to. Face facts - those at the bottom of the social ladder have rioted throughout history to protest against the social conditions they have to endure. This has nothing to do with race, nationality or religion, but everything to do with the dire economic situation the poorest face, and it just so happens that communities with immigrant origins tend to find themselves at the poorest end of society and hence, are more liable to rioting to protest this situation...

I see your point, point taken. I am not trying to be racist here. But I believe that the roots of riots in Europe by youth of immigrant parents is that these people decided to build their own communities to keep intact completely their culture, religion, etc. Nothing wrong with that. Then they started having problems and demanded that the governments pay for their communities. Of course, they didnt get the kind of funding they needed. So they resorted to violence. And now Sarkozy was elected in France with a massive immigrant crackdown agenda going, with a goal of deporting 25,000 illegal immigrants and attepmting to pass laws that give prison terms of up to 5 years for French families who are hiding and supporting the illegals.

And the same planned in other European countries, even in Denmark
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1802940.stm (that was 5 years ago, imagine it now).

I think Europeans realized their mistake in immigration issues after looking at these massive riots. They now want to totally close immigration, and in ordet not to be discriminative, they closed off immigration to people of all cultures, not just African-born. Which makes it hard for asylum seekers to get in.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture