The question is, what does it deliver?

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper the last part (monetary policy/world bank) is the most important...

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper the 9/11 part is full of flaws and debunked theories

Probably, and even if the doc is wrong on SOME of the key points, it would still generally do a very job of convincing me. For some reason the stuff about WTC building #7 was a smoking gun of sorts.

I've heard some of the debunking but not in relation to these particular claims. Can someone take the time and post them? Or point me in the right direction SPECIFICALLY on these comments please.

quote:

Originally posted by Zentac_75 Best proof why its bullshit....The documentary claims that the US government pulled of the greatest hoax the world has ever seen, involving thousands people and fooling millions. Yet the same government can not prevent some college students conspiracy theory from making it to the public. Ps. The guy is still alive, that should be proof enough that his theory is BS.

I disagree completely, in fact one of the concurrent themes in the doc is that information/idealogies can be so blantantly real, true, and right in front of your face people don't even notice it. Think Hitler in Mein Kempf.... Also people are scared to believe in said "new" ideas. For some it would mean completely rejecting a way of life (in particular in relation to institutional religion), people would rather succomb to a falsehood, it's so much "easier" than challenging and questioning. (kind of like the dinosaur fossil anecdote offered, people tend to prefer the easiest way of doing anything, in this case blind faith is easier than a complicated mixed bag of faiths)

The US Government acknowledging and challenging the claims made (in particular on 9/11) would to some extent ad credibility to them being worth noting. Not only that but don't underestimate how big of a part technology has played in this new era of information. Realistically it would be FUCKING hard to kybosh (sp?) this documentary from being spread around the internet. (thankfully the internetz is still a civil liberty we have full control over, well mostly)

quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa and if it takes the half-assed theory from the movie to debunk the supernatural aspects of religion in any one person, they're a fucking idiot

Although I abandoned my faith/rationale behind institutional religion from a very young age, I've still always retained the spiritual side of it (in relation to the core principles offered up essentially by the Bible). I've always had a deep spiritual sense (to be fair, coupled with a belief in each man being his own Zarathustra) and with really no answers or direction to what that could be, I've kind of just always ran with all I know. (Roman Catholism, specifically Jesus/God as a higher power as a reference point) Maybe that did make me a "fucking idiot", but it was a raw natural gut feeling (typically human) thing for me to. Based on how blatantly (and imo effectively) this doc. debuncts spefically the Bible I'm not ashamed to admit that the spiritual DIRECTION of my faith has been almost completely shattered.

quote:

Originally posted by DaRoZa and the second main thing that bugged me was them jumping to conclusions about conspiracy theories and the illuminati (or whoever's) future agenda... they state some interesting facts and show interviews... but then say that because of this that means that there is some sinister long term plan involving the world population getting axed and people getting microchipped, without any proof of that. just because one pillar of a conspiracy theory is proven to be true doesn't mean the rest of it is

I see what you're saying, and again I'll agree the documentary isn't perfect. It does make some ridiculous deductions especially near the end. But I think overall (in a general sense) it wanted to give you insight into what is NOW easier with the LARGE removal of our civil liberties. (and this perpetuates the motive for why a 9/11 event would make sense from a financial statement point of view). {on an aside this reminded me about key facets of the doc "The Corporation" and how people can easily disassociate moral decision making processes if they are under the umbrella of a company mandate} I find it easier to accept the Orwellian themes when I think in terms of consumerism. The bottom line is that companies want as much information as possible on us as best to maximize selling products to us. (this is nothing new)

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut The question is, what does it deliver?

a comment on the current state of global economics (and how little control we have over the decision making process, or what the general population EVEN KNOWS about it), a take on the catholic religion and how it is basically a plagarized fraud... no? Based on your comment Aaron I'm guessing you weren't at all impressed with the doc? I'm interested to hear what you have to say about it.

___________________
http://www.beatport.com/jonathan-rosa/

Last edited by jon jon on Nov-07-2007 at 14:43

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon I've heard some of the debunking but not in relation to these particular claims. Can someone take the time and post them? Or point me in the right direction SPECIFICALLY on these comments please. I disagree completely, in fact one of the concurrent themes in the doc is that information/idealogies can be so blantantly real, true, and right in front of your face people don't even notice it. Think Hitler in Mein Kempf.... Also people are scared to believe in said ideas. For some it would mean completely rejecting a way of life (in particular in relation to institutional religion), people would rather succomb to a falsehood, it's so much "easier" than challenging and questioning.

My call for BS was targeted specifically at the 911 portion of zeitgeist and the "loose change' documentery.

I realize my comments were a little of the top. I know that my assumption holds no weight. I just had to point out that If the US can accomplish all the things that David Avery accuses them of in his documentary, than surly they can make him 'disapear'.
I just really believe that the simplist explanation is the correct one, and the version of events that is presented by the 911 conspiracy theorists is offly complex.

Anyway.... here is some counter-documentaries in regards to loose change. If you watched and enjoyed the 911 theories in zeitgeist you should watch and enjoy the following.


[[ LINK REMOVED ]]


http://911research.wtc7.net/reviews...e/pentagon.html

http://www.loosechangeguide.com/

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/...ose_change.html

http://internetdetectives.biz/case/loose-change

In a debate against Mark Roberts, creator of the "Loose Change 2nd Edition Viewers Guide" and Ronald Wieck, contributor to the American Thinker, on Hardfire, a local NYC cable program, Dylan Avery stated that:

"I would be the first to admit that our film definitely contained errors, it still does contain some dubious claims, and it does come to some conclusions that are not 100% backed up by the facts."

___________________
"I don't judge anyone except myself; you shouldn't either."

Last edited by Zentac_75 on Nov-05-2007 at 16:48

quote:

Originally posted by Zentac_75 I just really believe that the simplist explanation is the correct one, and the version of events that is presented by the 911 conspiracy theorists is offly complex.

lol fack I edited this part in just before you responded.

quote:

Originally posted by jon jon people would rather succomb to a falsehood, it's so much "easier" than challenging and questioning. (kind of like the dinosaur fossil anecdote offered, people tend to prefer the easiest way of doing anything, in this case blind faith is easier than a complicated mixed bag of faiths)

___________________
http://www.beatport.com/jonathan-rosa/

At least just watch some of the first google video link I posted. (I couldn't actually sit through the whole 3 hours....)

And read some of the third and fourth.

I've tried to wrap my head around 911 and ultimately don't know what to believe, except that it shouldn't have happened.

___________________
"I don't judge anyone except myself; you shouldn't either."

Last edited by Zentac_75 on Nov-05-2007 at 16:58

Leftist propaganda.

___________________
- rabbit.joker [funny¿rabbit] | www.rabbitjoker.com |www.ddtt.org

Dark Dirty Tech Tribal. | Hands in air (trance) and feet on the floor (house).

just to clarify, i didn't mean that everyone who has faith in religion is a fucking idiot... i just said that's what i think they probably are if it's the first third of this documentary, of all things, that gives them the epiphony to question their beliefs... i just think they should have sparked interest in the way humans universally develop religion based upon the current state of their society, rather than making christianity out to be some unique hoax

___________________
open your mind a little too much and your brain will fall out.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Leftist propaganda.

so lame, wow.

I was (optimistically) hoping you would share your insight into this documentary as for the most part I highly respect your opinion/grasp of our economic system.

In saying that, I would also probably catogorize you under the "smart enough to perpetuate the bullshit" column.

___________________
http://www.beatport.com/jonathan-rosa/

http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm

If there are any parts of the WTC 7 "smoking gun" that this page doesn't thoroughly debunk, please feel free to point them out.

Or you could read the reports from FEMA, NIST, the ASCE, etc., which have mountains of actual scientific data on the event. Unless you think they were all in on it too (I think the number of people involved in the conspiracy has already surpassed 1 million, so what's a few thousand more?)

___________________
My party schedule:
2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares ¶ Although I'm Actually Flattered
9999-45-81 - Tweaker Gimp ☼ I Probably Won't Even Go To This But I Have To Make Sure I Fill Up All The Available Space Here

interesting, thanks for link.

___________________
http://www.beatport.com/jonathan-rosa/

I just watched this flick; it was a lot better than I expected. I enjoyed all three parts and found numerous aspects to be very interesting. For example, there were various pieces of footage on 9/11 which I had not previously viewed. The religion section was also a fun watch and I couldn't help but think 'What would my grandfather think of this?' (Undoubtedly he'd watch for a few minutes, proclaim 'horse shit!', and storm out of the room haha).