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TranceAddict Forums > Other > Political Discussion / Debate > Pakistan - 'Emergency Rule'
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
And more importantly, who gains control of the nukes and does India make a move on Kashmir?


Then, the US or Israel bombs Iran.. Iran is like, aw hell naw fuck yall, and they bomb Israel, and step up proxy asymmetric warfare or support on the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. How deep will the rabbit hole go alice?


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Old Post Nov-06-2007 22:53  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Then, the US or Israel bombs Iran.. Iran is like, aw hell naw fuck yall, and they bomb Israel, and step up proxy asymmetric warfare or support on the US in Iraq and Afghanistan. How deep will the rabbit hole go alice?



It would indeed be messy. CSIS published an article in the Washington Quarterly this summer about the increasing military linkages between Iran and India. If India and Pakistan go to war, the US will be in a tough spot - we would lose our ability to support India and go after Iran at the same time.


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Old Post Nov-06-2007 22:56  United Nations
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Spacey Orange
still loves trance.



Registered: Jul 2004
Location: California

president Musharraf is trying to put out a fire by dousing it with a bucket of gasoline.

does any not agree that he should step down and restore democracy, allowing participation by religious parties?


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Old Post Nov-06-2007 23:43  United States
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Spacey Orange
president Musharraf is trying to put out a fire by dousing it with a bucket of gasoline.

does any not agree that he should step down and restore democracy, allowing participation by religious parties?




It's a tricky question - democracy might only destabilize things even more. I don't like what he is doing, but going in the other direction wouldn't necessarily be the path to security either.


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Old Post Nov-07-2007 03:35  United Nations
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

Rudy Giuliani said last week that Senator Joe Biden doesn't have any credible foreign policy experience. Joe Biden responded by giving his resume and adding that foreign policy experience doesn't really count when the only interaction with foreign policy you have is when it happens to you.

Anyway, here's Biden's foreign policy prowess on display:

quote:

Joe Biden
We Need a Pakistan Policy
Posted November 6, 2007 | 02:22 PM (EST)


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


The international community is deeply concerned about the stability of Pakistan this week after General Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency on Saturday, suspending the country's constitution and cracking down on political opposition by arresting thousands of dissenters, journalists, and activists. The pictures and video coming out of the country paint a distressing portrait of a country in crisis.

I've been saying for some time that Pakistan is probably the most dangerous and complex country we deal with. If I were president today, I would be on the phone with Musharraf myself and make clear to him the risk to Pakistani-US relations if he does not restore the constitution, permit free and fair elections and take off his uniform as promised.

Unfortunately, I have heard nothing in my briefings from current administration officials to suggest that George Bush has any notion as to our next step in addressing this crisis. We have been told that this state of martial law will last only a few days, but let's not kid ourselves.

Going forward, we need to keep three things in mind:

First, we have a huge stake in making sure Pakistan's moderate majority has a voice and an outlet with elections. If they don't, they may make common cause with the fundamentalists, just like the Shah's opponents did in Iran. But if the fundamentalists wind up in power, it will be much worse than Iran, because Pakistan already has nuclear weapons and the missile delivery systems to put our allies and security interests in the region in harm's way.

Second, we should move from a Musharraf policy to a Pakistan policy. We need to build a new relationship with the Pakistani people, with more non-military aid, sustained over a long period of time, so that the moderate majority has a chance to succeed. I'm going to be speaking in detail to this on Thursday in New Hampshire at Saint Anselm College.

Third, connect the dots: Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Afghanistan are all linked. Far from operating in a vacuum, what we do in one place profoundly affects the others. For example, because we shifted our resources away from Afghanistan to Iraq, Musharraf concluded the Taliban would rebound and he would be better off cutting a deal with them. Now, we're so tied down in Iraq we can't take the pressure off him in Afghanistan. And all this talk of war with Iran only makes it harder for moderates in Pakistan and Afghanistan to cooperate with us.

We are in a very tough spot, and our policy options have been limited by this administration's refusal to accept the complexity of our situation in the Middle East. While the burden is on Musharraf today to restore Pakistan's constitution, we must also act and bring this war in Iraq to a responsible conclusion. It is the only way to restore our place in the world and regain our ability to respond to the many challenges we face as a nation here at home and abroad.


http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joe-b...cy_b_71399.html


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Old Post Nov-07-2007 14:55  United Nations
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

Where is Qecho and Latinlover to defend Bush's support of the military dictatorship?? According to their neocon filth, we should be invading Pakistan.


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Old Post Nov-07-2007 15:00  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
Where is Qecho and Latinlover to defend Bush's support of the military dictatorship?? According to their neocon filth, we should be invading Pakistan.



Whoa, where have you read that? As far as I knew, the neocons are just nodding their head and supporting whatever Musharref does at this point. Have you read something more heinous?


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Old Post Nov-07-2007 15:08  United Nations
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Whoa, where have you read that? As far as I knew, the neocons are just nodding their head and supporting whatever Musharref does at this point. Have you read something more heinous?


The Bush admin has given at least $10 billion to the regime of Mashariff. They claim we are in Iraq to remake a new Middle East of democracy, but yet support dictatorship, have been since supporting the Shah of Iran, and then act as if they are appalled by Mashariff declaring martial law? What fucking standard is there? There is none.

The neocons support dictatorships when it meets their needs, and sanction and invade them when they don't.

How about a sound standard of foreign policy? A ubiquitous policy applied in all diplomacy. I see a blatant ulterior motive here displayed in the hypocrisy and non-uniformity of our foreign policy actions.

I think Q and LL have forgotten that we have supported dictatorships for decades, Saddam, Shah, Contras, Indonesia, and yet they continue to preach this democracy in the middle east bullshit of an ideal. It's all vomit.


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Old Post Nov-07-2007 17:02  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

I really am dumbfounded at how the moderate pakistanis (Bhutto supporters, lawyers, judges) are the ones being targeted by Masharaf while the militants gain ground in places like Swat, recently a relatively moderate region. Masharaf's focus is not fighting militants, it's holding onto power.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

US worries rise over Pakistan crackdown

By MATTHEW ROSENBERG, Associated Press Writer 17 minutes ago

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan - Pakistan quickly ended house arrest for opposition leader Benazir Bhutto on Friday as President Gen. Pervez Musharraf came under new U.S. pressure to end a crackdown that Washington fears is hurting the fight against Islamic extremism.

Earlier in the day, police threw up barbed wire around Bhutto's house to keep her from speaking at a rally to protest Musharraf's imposition of emergency rule, and security forces rounded up thousands of her supporters to block any mass demonstrations.

The action was a new blow to hopes the two U.S.-friendly leaders could form an alliance against militants — a rising threat underlined by a suicide bombing in northwest Pakistan that targeted the home of a Cabinet minister, who escaped without injury.

Bhutto twice tried to evade authorities in her car, telling police who surrounded her villa: "Do not raise hands on women. You are Muslims. This is un-Islamic." Officers blocked the former prime minister's way with an armored vehicle.

In Rawalpindi, the nearby garrison town where she had hoped to stage the rally, police fired tear gas at hundreds of Bhutto loyalists who staged wildcat protests and hurled stones. More than 100 were arrested.

The Bush administration called for the restrictions on Bhutto to be lifted, and Pakistan's government said late Friday that she was again free to move about, although police barriers remained outside her house. Her supporters said she would try to leave Saturday morning.

In Washington, where some lawmakers are calling for aid to Pakistan to be curtailed, U.S. officials again criticized Musharraf's crackdown.

"We remain concerned about the continued state of emergency and curtailment of basic freedoms, and urge Pakistani authorities to quickly return to constitutional order and democratic norms," Gordon Johndroe, a spokesman for the National Security Council, said in a statement.

As Musharraf's chief international backer, the Bush administration is deeply concerned about the deteriorating situation in Pakistan, a nuclear-armed nation of 160 million people that is on the front lines of the U.S.-led campaign against terrorist groups.

The suspension of the constitution last weekend has intensified the anger of moderate and secular Pakistanis who have become increasingly frustrated with military rule. At the same time, Islamic militants with ties to the Taliban and al-Qaida are stepping up violence, including suicide bombings and fighting in the northwest along the border with Afghanistan.

Musharraf cited the gains by extremists in the frontier region as one of the main reasons for his emergency decree, saying political unrest was undermining the fight against militants.

On Friday, a suicide bomber blew himself up at the home of Minister for Political Affairs Amir Muqam in the northwestern city of Peshawar. Muqam was unhurt but four people died.

Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the turmoil could undermine the battle against Pakistani insurgents.

"The concern I have is that the longer the internal problems continue, the more distracted the Pakistani army and security services will be in terms of the internal situation rather than focusing on the terrorist threat in the frontier area," Gates told reporters while flying home from a weeklong visit to Asia.

Despite the government's attempt to squelch Pakistani news coverage of the unrest, some independent TV channels are finding ways to broadcast reports. Geo TV, for instance, transmits by satellite from a backup facility in the Persian Gulf and it streams video on the Internet.

Most of the thousands of people rounded up this week have been moderates — lawyers and activists from secular opposition parties, such as Bhutto's Pakistan People's Party. The detentions have fueled popular suspicions the embattled Musharraf declared the emergency to maintain his grip on power, which he has held since leading a coup in 1999.

Bhutto's detention, if only for a day, showed Musharraf has no intention of easing the crackdown despite saying Thursday that parliamentary elections would be held by mid-February, just a month later than originally planned. The announcement came after intense pressure from the U.S.

The move against Bhutto further harmed prospects for a Bhutto-Musharraf alliance that Washington has been pushing for.

"I worked out a road map with Gen. Musharraf for a peaceful transition to democracy and I'm very disappointed that though there is a peaceful way, he chose the nonpolitical path," Bhutto told a few dozen supporters after her second foiled attempt to get out of her villa.

Police kept a wary eye on her supporters, who repeatedly tried to remove the barbed wire and steel and concrete barriers ringing Bhutto's house. At least 30 of her loyalists were arrested, including a woman carrying flowers.

Dressed in a blue tunic and her trademark white head scarf, Bhutto twice tried to leave for Rawalpindi inside a white Landcruiser with tinted windows, surrounded by about 50 supporters, including several lawmakers.

After being turned back the second time, her way blocked by an armored vehicle, she got out of the car and joined her supporters, who chanted "Go, Musharraf, go!"

"I want to tell you to have courage because this battle is against dictatorship and it will be won by the people," Bhutto said as police stood guard nearby.

Her supporters said they would only be further emboldened by Friday's clampdown.

"We will not go away. Our party activists have been mobilized to move out and take to the streets," said Abida Hussain, a former ambassador to the United States.


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Old Post Nov-10-2007 02:54  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Lebezniatnikov
Stupidity Annoys Me



Registered: Feb 2004
Location: DC

Here's a real statement on the popularity of this Administration even in key ally countries like Pakistan:

quote:

Musharraf and Bhutto turn to Sen. Biden before talking to Bush

November 11, 2007
BY ROBERT NOVAK Sun-Times Columnist
President Pervez Musharraf and opposition leader Benazir Bhutto each placed telephone calls from Pakistan to Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden, chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, to discuss the country's crisis before either talked to President George W. Bush.

On Saturday, Bhutto emphasized to Biden the need for parliamentary elections in January with Gen. Musharraf remaining as president but leaving the army. Musharraf called Biden on Tuesday and asked that their conversation be kept confidential. Biden got the impression Musharraf could accept January elections although he had triggered the crisis by suspending the constitution.

Biden, seeking the Democratic presidential nomination, wants the Bush administration to get actively involved in resolving the situation. He wants development now of a post-election power-sharing agreement between Musharraf and Bhutto


http://www.suntimes.com/news/novak/...NOVAK11.article


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Old Post Nov-12-2007 00:16  United Nations
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MisterOpus1
Grumpy Old Fart



Registered: Dec 2001
Location: Kansas City

quote:
Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov
Here's a real statement on the popularity of this Administration even in key ally countries like Pakistan:



http://www.suntimes.com/news/novak/...NOVAK11.article


Too funny.

And very telling.


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Old Post Nov-12-2007 01:22  United States
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

This sure isn't good...

quote:
US aid to Pakistan diverted, squandered: report

Mon Dec 24, 2:53 AM ET

WASHINGTON (AFP) - More than five billion dollars in US aid to Pakistan has often never reached the military units it was intended for to fight Al-Qaeda and the Taliban, and was instead diverted to other programs, the New York Times reported Monday.

Much of the money meant to reimburse frontline Pakistani units was channeled to weapons systems aimed at India and to pay inflated Pakistani reimbursement claims for fuel, ammunition and other costs, unnamed US government and military officials told the daily.

Pakistanis critical of President Pervez Musharraf said he used the reimbursements to prop up his government, and one European diplomat said the United States should have been more careful with its money.

"I wonder if the Americans have been taken for a ride," said the diplomat, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

Money intended to repay Pakistan for maintaining 100,000 troops in the restive tribal areas apparently does not reach the troops who need it, officials said.

"It is not making its way, for certain, we know, to the broader part of the armed forces which is carrying out the brunt of the operations on the border" with Afghanistan, a senior US military official told the Times.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/uspakis...727MYT8TooDW7oF


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Old Post Dec-25-2007 03:24  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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