OK now, back to topic. The issue with Georgia is very delicate. Abkhazia and South Ossetia in early 1990s have become technically independent with strong help from Russian military and volunteers, I dont deny it. A neighbour of mine in Russia, a Cossack went to Abkhazia in 1992 and fought as a volunteer against Georgian forces. Its a very delicate issue. Many crimes committed, many people displaced.

For Abkhaz people it was a bittersweet revenge for the 1930s cleansing of Abkhaz people by Stalin's Georgian killing squads (Stalin was Georgian himself) - at that time over one-squarter of Abkhaz people were slaughtered. South Ossetians were forcefully resettled and many of Georgian crimes were unpunished. When Soviet Union disintegrated, these suffering people decided to settle old scores, with help. Georgia was humiliated.

Strangely enough, Russia is campaigning to keep these de-facto independent republics within Georgia. Just like its campaigning bitterly to keep Kosovo as part of Serbia.

But these events have little to do with whats currently going on in Tbilisi. People got tired of Saakashvilli's lies and incompetence. When he came to power, he promised his people to bring back the separatist republics. But after using provocations and failed attacks and sabotage against these republics, he hasnt gained anything. He quadripled the defense/military budget of the country, indicating a possible use of force to reunite Georgia. The truth is, South Ossetia never left Russian Empire. There are no documents that were signed that gave Southern Ossetia to Georgia. It was forcefully ripped off by the communists and divided in two, one of many examples of which the conflicts in Caucasus are brewing. The area was always Russian, and even today most of South Ossetians (and EVEN Abkhazians) have dual Russian citizenship and speak Russian fluently and have it as one of official languages. Thousands of Russians visit Abkhazia as tourists every year, and economic and business is growing between Russia and the separatist republics in Georgia, while Georgian government is pushing Russia away.

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I've been to Georgia, but sorry to say it so blatantly, but the most beautiful regions there were in the separatist regions.

Abkhazia, visited by thousands of Russian tourists every year:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lake_Ritsa

Lake Ritsa in Abkhazia


EDIT: Pics are too big, so I am just linking:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5c/RitsaMounts.jpg


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ab/Ritsa1.jpg

Autonomous republic of Adjara in Georgia:



Gallery of Adjara mountains:
http://www.tourismadjara.ge/en/inde...file=mountains/

Adjaria rainforests (Colchian Rainforest):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:..._Rainforest.jpg

I've seen Colchian Rainfrest personally, but oddly enough I cant find any pictures online that are decent of it.

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Last edited by Magnetonium on Nov-10-2007 at 22:15

Here's the next Georgian leader for you:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7088734.stm

quote:

Georgian tycoon 'to contest poll' Exiled tycoon Badri Patarkatsishvili has said he will run in snap presidential elections called to quell an escalating crisis in Georgia. Mr Patarkatsishvili - whom authorities accuse of plotting a coup - called the government "completely discredited". His pledge came after government and opposition leaders met in Tbilisi for the first time since police broke up violent protests there on Wednesday. The severity of the government response to the protests has shocked onlookers. Despite President Mikhail Saakashvili's pledge to call a presidential poll on 5 January, a state of emergency remains in force banning public demonstrations and independent news broadcasts. A high-level US state department official is expected to add his voice to European demands to lift the state of emergency when he arrives in Tbilisi on Saturday. But President Saakashvili - who accuses Russian agents of destabilising the country, a charge which Moscow denies - has said it will remain in force as long as necessary. Opposition 'surprised' Mr Patarkatsishvili is an old foe of the government in Tbilisi. He finances opposition parties and is the owner of Imedi television, which was taken off the air on Wednesday following the tough police crackdown on thousands of protesters. On Saturday, Mr Patarkatsishvili told Reuters news agency he would participate in January's elections, in a statement emailed from his location in exile, thought to be Israel. ""Mr Saakashvili's regime has completely discredited itself in the eyes of the Georgian people who will never again entrust it its destiny," the statement said. Mr Patarkatsishvili's pledge reportedly surprised a 10-party opposition coalition which is trying to unite around a single candidate to challenge Mr Saakashvili. "It's the first I have heard of this," opposition leader Tina Khidasheli told Reuters. On Friday, Georgia's prosecutor general's office said Mr Patarkatsishvili was under criminal investigation for plotting a coup and he was wanted for questioning. Pressure continues Opposition parties have hailed the calling of the election on 5 January as a victory, but commentators caution that it presents them with the significant task of mounting a credible challenge to Mr Saakashvili in the space of a few weeks. No opposition figure has emerged who could seriously challenge him in the presidential elections, says the BBC's Matthew Collin in Tbilisi. The leader of the opposition Republican party, Levan Berdzenishvili, told news agency AFP that discussions over candidatures would only begin after the state of emergency is lifted. The emergency decree was passed by parliament on Friday, but opposition lawmakers boycotted the vote. The EU envoy to the South Caucasus, Peter Semneby, urged the state of emergency to be lifted "as soon as possible" on Saturday. His calls are expected to be echoed by Matthew Bryza, US deputy assistant secretary of state, when he arrives on Saturday. But Mr Saakashvili sounded a defiant note in a speech on Saturday, saying the decree would be lifted "when we deem it necessary". Opposition leaders met a government representative, parliamentary speaker Nino Burdzhanadze, for preparatory talks ahead of full negotiations set to begin on Saturday evening. In addition to elections, opposition demands include bringing forward parliamentary elections, the reform of election rules, the release of jailed opposition figures and the resignation of the president.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Its now official - Saakashvilli and his mad dogs want to keep the blockade on opposition and independent media in the country with bans, at least until after the January elections. The popular independent Imedi TV and its property has been placed under arrest and according to the reports will not be allowed to air on television until summer 2008. Currently only the government television station and its channels are on air.

http://www.indexonline.org/en/news/...-protests.shtml

quote:

Journalists in Georgia have felt the heat during recent upheaval in the former soviet state. Here, one reporter tells of the conditions he and his colleagues have faced in recent days Earlier this week, Georgian president Mikheil Saakashvili decreed a state of emergency after the violent dispersal of anti-government protests, ordering the shutdown of independent media outlets and deploying troops throughout the capital. While the government’s crackdown succeeded in restoring order in a country still recovering from years of civil conflict, the ruling administration’s reputation for liberal reform has been irreparably damaged, as it enforces emergency rule and a news blackout at the same time a snap election campaign gets underway. The anti-government rallies, organized by a tenuous coalition of ten political opposition parties, began 2 November with tens of thousands of Georgians calling for earlier parliamentary elections. They soon progressed to angry but peaceful demands for Saakashvili’s resignation. The protests unraveled into bloody street battles across the capital’s center on 7 November, as riot police moved in to break up the crowds with tear gas, rubber bullets and batons. The president declared a state of emergency that evening, suspending the rights to assemble, strike and receive and disseminate information. The government ordered television and radio stations, then airing live coverage of the rally and its breakup, to stop their news broadcasts. The next day, the streets were calm but the air tense as hundreds of men in army fatigues kept watch in central Tbilisi. Only the state-owned television station was broadcasting news updates, interspersed with content including combat footage from one of Georgia’s secessionist conflicts. Other channels showed soap operas and movies, while Tbilisi residents found that BBC, CNN and Russian news broadcasts were unavailable on terrestrial cable. Newspapers, not widely read, are still free to print. At least one of the bigger newspapers, however, temporarily closed down shop in an apparent precautionary measure. Journalists reported being targeted in the crackdown on 7 November. When clashes first broke out between riot police and protestors that morning, a number of reporters and photographers suffered minor injuries. Initially, police tried to confiscate or destroy camera equipment. During the afternoon’s relative lull, journalists were able to operate freely as riot police squared off with protestors on the city’s main avenue. But with the violence continuing in Tbilisi, broadcast live and escalating, police pulled over a minibus full of local journalists heading to a constitutional law conference in the town of Batumi. After asking the driver for his documents, the police let the minibus continue on—but not before finding out the passengers were journalists. Fifteen minutes later, another set of police officers stopped them again. This time, they arrested the driver for unpaid fines, a charge he is contesting. The journalists were threatened with arrest after photographing the incident, then left on the side of the road as police confiscated the minibus. The reporter who relayed the incident is convinced police stopped them because they were journalists. A student demonstration in Batumi, in reaction to the ongoing events in Tbilisi, was planned for later that day. She speculates police wanted to limit coverage of that demonstration, which was eventually broken up violently by spetznatz, the black ski-masked special forces troops. There were reports of physical violence against journalists that evening, when the most aggressive dispersal of protestors brought an end to the rallies. One reporter and his crew were caught between advancing columns of riot police. Two were injured by rubber bullets before being chased down a road by police officers. The reporter insists they saved their heads and their equipment only with the aid of a passing motorist. And as riot police battled protestors among the churches and bridges of central Tbilisi, presenters at Imedi TV announced that spetznatz were storming their studio. They sat in tense silence for 20 seconds before the broadcast went dead. The Imedi media group, viewed as unfriendly towards the government, was founded by Georgian billionaire Badri Patarkatsishvili. He ran the network until last week, when he handed over his controlling stake to Rupert Murdoch’s News Corp. He gave up control of the station, Patarkatsishvili said, so he could finance the opposition’s political campaign and still maintain the station’s objectivity. Patarkatsishvili is now being charged with conspiracy to overthrow the government. In an interview with BBC World Service, Imedi TV chief F Lewis Robertson said around two hundred special forces officers rushed into the television studio that evening without warning. They completely destroyed the control room equipment, he said, injuring several journalists and engineers with rubber bullets and batons. The station’s destruction is especially concerning in light of Saakashvili’s decision to hold a snap presidential election on 5 January, announced in an apparent effort to quell the capital’s unrest and regain lost legitimacy with voters. “I have decided to put your trust and my mandate to the test,” he told Georgians in a live address, carried by the state-owned broadcaster on 8 November. There will also be a non-binding referendum on whether parliamentary elections should be moved forward. Imedi TV’s prime competitor, Rustavi 2, is considered pro-government. Its anonymous ownership is rumored to be tied to a top administration official. Rustavi 2 remains on-air, with a purely entertainment format. Only Imedi TV and a smaller broadcaster, Kavkasia, were shut down completely. With the country beginning a two-month presidential campaign, the political opposition fear they will be hamstringed by the continuing media blackout and the loss of Imedi TV. Speaking with AP in an article published 8 November, News Corp owner Rupert Murdoch suggested it could be at least three months before Imedi TV resumes full operations—well past the election date. Before this crisis, Georgian journalists enjoyed more freedom than colleagues in neighboring countries. Under ex-president Eduard Shevardnadze, ousted in the Western-supported and bloodless 2003 Rose Revolution which brought Saakashvili to power, news media were vibrant, diverse and often heavily critical of the government. Media diversity dropped after the Rose revolution, in part because many newspapers belonged to the slew of small political parties which faded as Saakashvili’s National Movement won overwhelming political—and popular—dominance. Any censorship since the Rose revolution was typically self-imposed. In a tiny, closely networked country with a meager advertising industry, few media operators can afford to upset powerful figures they may need to do business with the next day. Balanced and objective reporting, meanwhile, is a relatively new phenomenon here. Print articles in particular are routinely spiced with the reporter’s ‘analysis’ of the situation, often mixing hearsay and opinion in a questionable cocktail. With a major media network out for the count and newspapers sparsely read, Georgian voters will have difficulty finding information they trust even after the state of emergency is lifted. As this report was being written, Georgia’s parliament voted to back a fifteen-day national emergency rule. Unless Saakashvili decrees otherwise, the media blackout will continue as he reruns for the presidency in hopes of repairing his tattered mandate.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

LMAO!!!! Rupert Murdoch was involved in Russian-backed coup attempt against a very democratic Georgian government!

http://www.variety.com/article/VR11...egoryid=14&cs=1

quote:

Imedi TV off the air News Corp. network has license suspended Georgia has suspended the license and confiscated transmission equipment of Rupert Murdoch’s Imedi TV channel Wednesday. Mikheil Saakashvili, president of the troubled Caucasus nation, declared a 15-day state of emergency in the country Nov. 7, putting all independent media off the air, with only state-owned broadcasters retaining access to transmission facilities. Rebroadcasts of Russian channels were also stopped. Nino Burdzhanadze, speaker of the country’s parliament, said Wednesday that the state of emergency would be lifted early, effective Friday. But a court order issued Wednesday looks likely to keep Imedi off the air for the foreseeable future -- severely compromising the country’s alleged commitment to democracy in the broadcasting sphere. Georgian authorities accused the station of being involved in Russian-backed protests in Tbilisi, Georgia’s capital, where people were dispersed with water cannon and tear gas Nov. 7. Imedi had aired hospital footage of victims of the day’s violence. In previous days, it had also broadcast interviews with former defense minister Irakly Okruashvili, now in exile in Germany and a major opponent of Saakashvili. Martin Pompadur, chairman of News Corp. Europe, denied that Imedi was “somehow involved” with Patarkatsishvili in Russia-backed street demonstrations. He added that the channel would appeal the decision through the Georgian courts.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

mag, wouldn't it be easier for Russia to invade than just stand by?
Go for it Russia! Go!

quote:

Originally posted by ams.rld mag, wouldn't it be easier for Russia to invade than just stand by? Go for it Russia! Go!

I'll be completely 100% honest with you. And its more than just my opinion, but an opinion of many people, Russians especially. Basically, we support Georgian people and their plight against an insane regime currently there, but

fuck Georgia. That country is meaningless to Russia. Thousands of Russian troops for over 200 years have fought and died for keeping Georgia from being massacred and forced away by the Turks and assimilated (like Kurds and Armenians were, sadly). Georgia has managed to keep its territory, culture, monuments, heroes, etc. and today it plays a political game to make Russia look evil, those ungrateful bastards. Georgia presents little strategic importance to Russia since its been politically unstable since 1990 - ppolitically unstable countries offer little good. No oil, no gas, backstabbing friend and poor Georgian people are suffering, caught in the middle. Armenia, however, is a great friend of Russia. They understand and let go of the past - where Russian armies have helped stop the Armenian massacre, and they get rewarded by Russia today. And Russia alone cannot be blamed in Georgian problems, just read about Gamsakhurdia - thats all you need to understand what I mean. The civil war in Goergia has been going on for since 1990 with no end in sight. Not just in South Ossetia and Abkhazia, and not just because Russia has some involvement. Here's some brief info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgian_civil_war

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

What's with the "Emergency Rule" syndrome sweeping Eurasia? Hope this little sickness doesn't spread!!!!!!!!!!!

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