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Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Everyone has an agenda and everyone has a price in which they will shit all over you. As I often like to point out - It's a dog eat dog world; and I will eat your fucking dog.

That's utter nonsense, Mike. Not everyone has the same "agenda", so to speak, so there's no reason why confrontation is inevitable.

Besides, find people with no faith whatsoever to be weaker: you've got no one other than yourself. All people I met that lived that way were either paranoid, to the point it was almost pathetic, or simply miserable. Maybe you're an exception and, if you're happy that way... that's what matters, I guess.

I didn't say everyone has the same agenda. I said that everyone has an agenda - Which they do. Everyone wants something and everyone has a price in which they will pay to cross that line. That price differs from person to person though.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike I didn't say everyone has the same agenda. I said that everyone has an agenda - Which they do. Everyone wants something and everyone has a price in which they will pay to cross that line. That price differs from person to person though.

I know - I think I didn't make myself clear. What I meant is that, as most agendas don't "collide", there should be no reason for much confrontation.

I don't know if that counts as an agenda, but let's compare you, myself and Jennypie. I want to be a linguist. Jennypie is happy as a nurse. And, I don't know what your job is, so let's say you want a comfortable life, financially. Now, as a thought experiment, let's place all of us in the same workplace. Would we ever have a reason not to trust one another? Nah, not really. Even if you also wanted to be a linguist, there's no reason why we should "fight" one another rather than cooperate as we both have the same goal. As a matter of fact, as long as we cooperate, we're far better than if we decided to take each other out of the competition.

I think you're being a bit idealistic, Lira. I find that, despite whatever logic lies behind people working together and trusting one another, despite their differences, this will more often than not be completely ruined by at least 1 person's desire to serve themselves above reason. And then suddenly nobody trusts one another - you'd have to be a fool to maintain your trust of someone who has proven they are nowhere near worthy of it.

I'm not saying it's foolish or idealistic to trust others though. In fact, I think it's a wonderful thing, and might just be the only potentially beautiful thing really left in humanity. I trust others quite often. Do they eventually let me down? Yes. But I avoid being hurt by it by reserving at least the integrity of my mindset. That is to say, I put my trust into them, but can take it back just as easily. I realize that people make mistakes and I can usually forgive with time. But my trust is only ever in individuals. Putting your trust in a company or an organization of any sort is nothing short of idiocy. To put your faith and trust in humanity though? I think you need to define your terms a bit better to find the reason for that.

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quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I think you're being a bit idealistic, Lira. I find that, despite whatever logic lies behind people working together and trusting one another, despite their differences, this will more often than not be completely ruined by at least 1 person's desire to serve themselves above reason. And then suddenly nobody trusts one another - you'd have to be a fool to maintain your trust of someone who has proven they are nowhere near worthy of it.

I'm well aware of my idealism (I even told my girlfriend that), and I do know that a "perfect state of trust" would be a rather unstable scenario - if anything goes awry (or someone clearly egotistical appears), problems arise.

This is clearly the case in our current workplaces: because of one frustrated individual, there's this weird tension both at my workplace and hers.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On I'm not saying it's foolish or idealistic to trust others though. In fact, I think it's a wonderful thing, and might just be the only potentially beautiful thing really left in humanity. I trust others quite often. Do they eventually let me down? Yes. But I avoid being hurt by it by reserving at least the integrity of my mindset. That is to say, I put my trust into them, but can take it back just as easily. I realize that people make mistakes and I can usually forgive with time. But my trust is only ever in individuals. Putting your trust in a company or an organization of any sort is nothing short of idiocy. To put your faith and trust in humanity though? I think you need to define your terms a bit better to find the reason for that.

When I say "humanity", I refer to our stereotype of "human": when you see a person, or a group of persons, what would you look for at first? A reason not to trust them (i.e. you tend to trust others, and not trusting would be an exception), or would you try to look for a reason to trust them (because you wouldn't otherwise)?

Or, if you want to push it even further, and think about a Weltgeist (or World Spirit), do we essentially move on selfishly (as a macro-community), or is there some general interest on cooperation? I believe this generalisation is deeply rooted in this individualistic approach to trust.

i'm usually pretty selective about who i trust and what i trust them with. there are only a few people in my life who i trust completely.

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Originally posted by Lira My girlfriend who was born in a local hospital and I were talking about it Saturday and it surprised me how different our views were on this. Although I love my current job (and she hates hers), we both work in a place full of obnoxious back-stabbing grannies. Some of them are so sly and manipulative that you actually feel sorry for their pitiful span of existence. And, as we were talking about it, tears welled in my girlfriend's eye, and she told me about an advice a very nice workmate one gave her: “Be careful, darling, you can't trust anyone like you trust me. One day you will say something to a friend and, when you least expect, this so-called friend will stab you in the back in a heart beat, simply because you confided in them. ” This is a workmate we both like very much, and she does look like a nice person who eventually turned sour because of the environment she's in. And we then started debating: how much can you trust others? I tend to trust others at first, being also loyal to them (not unlike the famous Tit For Tat program in Game Theory), except when I do have plenty of reasons not to do so (i.e. if the person looks dodgy, I'm naturally inclined not to trust them). Also, I'd rather pay for my mistakes than lie. My girlfriend who was born in a local hospital, on the other hand, told me that she trusted no one but me. That doesn't mean she's a liar (she's shown me, throughout the years, that I can really trust her), but she hardly ever talks about her life to anyone. How about you? Do you trust others?

fixed!

god thats never gonna get old

content: Yeah i'm with you on the tit for tat dealie; although I'm not very outgoing, I'm very open. However, I'm also very independant and don't like to rely on other people for things so the situation doesn't arise often..

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Originally posted by mezzir fixed!

My girlfriend wasn't born in a local hospital though, she's from a village in São Paulo

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Originally posted by Lira My girlfriend wasn't born in a local hospital though, she's from a village in São Paulo

aw shit, who was it then?

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Originally posted by mezzir aw shit, who was it then?

That's Jackson's girlfriend you're thinking, not mine

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Originally posted by mezzir aw shit, who was it then?

Jackson

that joke will never get old.

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I don't think I trust people, but I give them a benefit of the doubt. Most people have their own agenda, so it would be silly to think otherwise, but that's not to say there are no good people in the world.

If i thought everyone sucked, id live a very lonely and bitter life.

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