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Originally posted by wrzonance HOLY CRAP. BTW I got a job everyone. Pats on the back for me?

u da man now dawg

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https://soundcloud.com/ghostea stuff

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Originally posted by Robin Banks Not Sure why you'd want the PT interface if your planning on runing Logic. There's plenty of other options available. Different if you were going to run PT...

Please do expand on what other options there are. I only know of PT itself, and Logic when using 192 HD's (if that's what you mean).

It's real good to see a contructive thread on this issue, especially for me as I'm at the crossroads of either going Mac or PC, and it has to last.

The thing that always gets me is that most people say Macs are more stable - I, like others here have seen wierd crashing problems on other peoples Mac's where my own old "slut" PC is rock solid, if now totally dated and underpowered.
Also, the most major point which has been breifly touched on is that £ for £ or $ for $, PC's are hugely better value: To get the top range Mac desktop, you're going to have to part with about $2,500(+), and if I considered building a PC with that kind of cash it would absolutely smoke the Mac, without question.

A problem at the moment though is that PT will not currently run on Leopard, and it's a long way from being sorted so the "Vista" plague (to a small degree) is now also a Mac problem.

My real dilemma is that I need something portable with a decent size screen, and I am having so much trouble forking out $2,000 for a Mac book pro.

OK, I feel I may be of some assistance here.

I just purchased a brand new Mac Pro and am in the process of switching sequencers and platforms all at the same time. So I bought a Mac Pro 2.66 Dual Xeon and Logic Studio. This was not an easy decision or a cheap one, as I had to throw in the cost of a new MIDI interface, new MOTU PCIe Interface and Logic Studio itself. All in all this cost me about $4000 total.

Now, let me tell you some of the reasons why. Some of the reasons for going this route for me are as follows:

• I like Mac OS X better than Windows.
  
• Mac OS X is UNIX at its core and is closer to the hardware from a code standpoint.
  
• I like the built in plugins and effects that Logic has to offer and I cannot get them on any other platform.
  
• I use MOTU audio hardware at the moment and their Mac drivers are updated far more often than their WIndows drivers. Last windows driver update was over a year ago, not counting a shoddy Vista driver. Last Mac driver update was 4 days ago.
  
• I have intentions of replacing my MOTU audio hardware with certain hardware. I may get hardware thats made specifically for Mac, namely the Apogee Ensemble audio interface which looks and sounds mighty tasty. OR I may go with a Pro Tools HD rig which is not Mac-specific. Either way, I have the option.
  

These options above are strictly for MY situation and probably wouldnt fit too many others, but it was the right way to go for me.

Now, I like the idea of having an OS based on UNIX because in my experience UNIX OS's are less bloated than windows OS. There are several things about the way the UNIX kernel is designed that make it an efficient, industrial strength OS...so efficient, in fact, that Microsoft has adopted many UNIX traits into Windows. Music production today, by its very nature, requires you to be able to squeeze as much power out of the hardware as you can, and I feel that UNIX can do a better job at that than Windows, even when properly tweaked.

This is NOT a knock on Windows, trust me, I'm a Microsoft developer for a living. The fact is, it is a little bit easier for Apple to fix things and tweak performance when you control both the hardware and the software. Apple is in this situation. They have the advantage of knowing exactly what hardware configurations their software is going to run on. What type of Motherboards, processors, etc.

Windows by its very nature must support a nearly infinite number of hardware configurations and that equates out to different levels of performance for everyone. It is much harder for Microsoft as a company to fix problems on so many configurations. I commend them for making an operating system that can actually function and function well in such an environment. I think many who havent been in the computer business or around computers very long do not realize what an amazing technical feat this is. It was not too long ago that ALL computers' hardware and software was locked together and the idea of an OS that could run on varying hardware configurations was just a pipe dream.

Anyway, I digress....my point is, some people like Windows, and some people like Mac. I like Mac and Windows, go figure. It is completely a personal preference. I am certainly not going to make a blanket statement that one is better than the other. One is better for me, another may be better for you. I have already bought all the hardware synths and FX processors I need, so I have the luxury of spending a little more on a computer.

If you feel comfortable with Mac OS X, you want to use hardware or software that is ONLY available on the Mac platform, and you have a little extra money to spend then Mac is a great choice. Alternatively, if you want to get the most bang for your buck, and are not particularly interested in any Mac-specific hardware or software, then buy an equivalent PC, tweak it well (www.musicxp.net), and get to producing some great music!

Last edited by Eric J on Nov-19-2007 at 23:12

Shit, didn't realise that was you Eric since you dropped the I-robot avatar!

Great post, I too like both Mac's and PC's but what you said goes a long way to convincing me to go Mac.

I don't quite get why you want to move away from Motu hardware though. Even though Apogee are incredible, I'm really not sure the difference in quality (minimal) could warrant the extra $$$'s. It sounds like dough isn't the issue though.

PT HD is sweet but bear in mind that the HD systems came out (in Europe at least) in late 2001 and if you look at the cycle of pro-tools products, they are getting near what is their usual boundary for the next gen of products. Having said that, there is no official mention (or even rumour) of next gen products and there would be a seriously large number of highly pissed off people if they brought out a completely new (rather than variation on theme) system.

I think the advantage of macs (at least the latest range) is that performance is not really a valid concern at persent, even for audio users. Logic running on a basic spec new mac (even mac mini) will stream as many tracks as you would realistically ever need, which was highlighted to me today in the Mac store: The rep showed me a mac book 2ghz C2D with 1 gig of ram, Logic streaming 90 tracks (audio+AU) simulatanously (with a 5400rpm drive which I had though was physically impossible with that speed drive.)

The real bummer right now is that PT does not work on Leopard (as well as much more hardware) and as all new macs now only ship with it, you'll have to fork out another $129 for Tiger. Slight kick in the nuts to have to shell out for an older OS to get your kit to work, but as you said; apple are gonna fix this long before Vista ever gets sorted.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Shit, didn't realise that was you Eric since you dropped the I-robot avatar!

Yeah, change is good sometimes!

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Great post, I too like both Mac's and PC's but what you said goes a long way to convincing me to go Mac. I don't quite get why you want to move away from Motu hardware though. Even though Apogee are incredible, I'm really not sure the difference in quality (minimal) could warrant the extra $$$'s. It sounds like dough isn't the issue though.

Most of the reason revolves around using TDM plugins. There are several TDM plugins I'd like to use and I need a Pro Tools HD rig in order to do that the way I want.

In addition, I have heard the MOTU audio hardware next to the Pro Tools HD interface and there is certainly no comparison when recording external hardware. The Pro Tools rig sounded much better.
COmbine that with the ability to use the Mix or Farm cards and the combo is a definite winner. Besides, this is not an imminent purchase, so I may wait to see what happens.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN PT HD is sweet but bear in mind that the HD systems came out (in Europe at least) in late 2001 and if you look at the cycle of pro-tools products, they are getting near what is their usual boundary for the next gen of products. Having said that, there is no official mention (or even rumour) of next gen products and there would be a seriously large number of highly pissed off people if they brought out a completely new (rather than variation on theme) system.

Yes this is one of the reasons I haven't totally committed on that yet and I am looking into alternatives such as the Ensemble. If I was in a totally software environment, then I'd probably not care as much, but I want the most accurate representation of my hardware in the audio environment as possible.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I think the advantage of macs (at least the latest range) is that performance is not really a valid concern at persent, even for audio users. Logic running on a basic spec new mac (even mac mini) will stream as many tracks as you would realistically ever need, which was highlighted to me today in the Mac store: The rep showed me a mac book 2ghz C2D with 1 gig of ram, Logic streaming 90 tracks (audio+AU) simulatanously (with a 5400rpm drive which I had though was physically impossible with that speed drive.)

Yes I agree with you on this point, but most of my problem is not with audio streaming, its more with using native plugins and running out of power.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN The real bummer right now is that PT does not work on Leopard (as well as much more hardware) and as all new macs now only ship with it, you'll have to fork out another $129 for Tiger. Slight kick in the nuts to have to shell out for an older OS to get your kit to work, but as you said; apple are gonna fix this long before Vista ever gets sorted.

Yes this is true. One other major piece of software that does not work with Leopard is the Waves Plugins. There is a note on their site that says not to upgrade to Leopard yet as the Waves installers do not work yet. I expect this situation to remedied fairly quickly as Waves is usually pretty responsive to situations like this.

I was actually able to get around the Leopard issue as the Sales Rep I talked to assured me that Tiger was included in the box as well as Leopard. He even told me that if that wasnt the case when I got the Mac to call him back and he'd make sure I got a copy of Tiger free of charge.

We'll see if that is the case, but after spending approx $4000 on this upgrade, tacking on an extra $129 is not going to be a huge issue for me. I'll be more pissed about the delay than the money. I cant start working on anything new right now until I get everything delivered and setup (thank god for the upcoming holiday!).

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Originally posted by Eric J Yeah, change is good sometimes! Most of the reason revolves around using TDM plugins. There are several TDM plugins I'd like to use and I need a Pro Tools HD rig in order to do that the way I want. In addition, I have heard the MOTU audio hardware next to the Pro Tools HD interface and there is certainly no comparison when recording external hardware. The Pro Tools rig sounded much better. COmbine that with the ability to use the Mix or Farm cards and the combo is a definite winner. Besides, this is not an imminent purchase, so I may wait to see what happens. Yes this is one of the reasons I haven't totally committed on that yet and I am looking into alternatives such as the Ensemble. If I was in a totally software environment, then I'd probably not care as much, but I want the most accurate representation of my hardware in the audio environment as possible. Yes I agree with you on this point, but most of my problem is not with audio streaming, its more with using native plugins and running out of power. Yes this is true. One other major piece of software that does not work with Leopard is the Waves Plugins. There is a note on their site that says not to upgrade to Leopard yet as the Waves installers do not work yet. I expect this situation to remedied fairly quickly as Waves is usually pretty responsive to situations like this. I was actually able to get around the Leopard issue as the Sales Rep I talked to assured me that Tiger was included in the box as well as Leopard. He even told me that if that wasnt the case when I got the Mac to call him back and he'd make sure I got a copy of Tiger free of charge. We'll see if that is the case, but after spending approx $4000 on this upgrade, tacking on an extra $129 is not going to be a huge issue for me. I'll be more pissed about the delay than the money. I cant start working on anything new right now until I get everything delivered and setup (thank god for the upcoming holiday!).

All makes sense now. If you're recording a lot of instruments, want to use (the many amazing) TDM plugins and get the added bonus of the cards, PTHD really is the shizzle. And you're right, $129 on $4k isn't a big deal, and I suppose you want ot upgrade later to leopard anyway when the probs are sorted out.

Check this out......

PROTOOLS....

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Please do expand on what other options there are. I only know of PT itself, and Logic when using 192 HD's (if that's what you mean).

Sorry, missed tha boat a bit. (late response)
I am personally thinking of going with the Lynx aurora with a PT set up.
link
It's quite subjective, but there's a bit of support on gearslutz for it compared to the digi gear, but like anything you need to test it yourself which can be a bit hard unless you have access to both set ups.