with mathematical proofs, oyu assume something to be true..

i mean most math is base on the fact that 1 + 1 = 2


the semantics of math have been defied.. if you come alon and say oin base 10, 1 + 1 = 3, then you need to re-qork all the previous proofs on that basis..


so, there are some rules, which you cannot proof, but they have been defined in terms of reality:

take a bean, add (+) another, we say that 1 bean plus 1 bean = 2 beans...

the names of the object doesn't really matter, it is just important that you are consisten (am i rambling?)

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I see your 4 Crushs and raise you 3 As The Rush Comes. - Yan from PvD's first summerstage event in '03

I dont even remember what we are trying to prove now lol. So do you want theory models on proof consrtuction? The problem is that when you are dealing with things like feelings and sensation they are irrevocably private. If someone says Im happy how do I know they arent lying? And to prove that there is a landmass someone would say I have seen it. some people take acid and see stuff too. How do you differentiate between normal sensations and skewed ones. what is a "normal" sensation and what is the standard deviation away from it. How do you know your own sensations are false? Sometimes I have a dream where I had sex. By all indication I did have sex. I can still feel the fingertips on my skin. I no longer see the woman but she could have left 5 minutes ago. When do you seperate dream from reality? how? The only thing that works is :I think therefore I am: thats a fun one too. How do you know you think? huh? I dont even know where Im going. Its late and im tiiiired. if tomorrow is friday then im getting drunk. tomorrow is friday. therefore im getting drunk. and that IS a fact muah muah muah. where was I. Ah yes the old dream reality debate. I think in dreams too. hmm does that mean that my dreams ARE? or do I exist in my dream because I think there. Sometimes I see crazy stuff. The senses betray us. what is there to rely on. If you were to imagine that all of your senses were gone. Sight. hearing.taste. smell. feel. and you didnt even see blackness. There was nothing. How could define reality? how could you define anything. You have lost the ability to speak and hear and move. You are a thought in the vast nothingness that encompasses all. Now. What is there to be proven to you. How can something be proved? can proof only come from sensation? from input from an outside world? What can be reasoned by thought alone? I think, I exist. nothing else is real. there is nothing else but me. I am all there is. That is all you could prove and all you would know. You would self actualize and there could be a billion people all around you thinking to themselves :Only I exist:... what a crazy universe we live in. Or dont live in? what if we are all just the dream puppets of a child in a bed in the real universe? our thoughts and actions are orchestrated. We are the blip of a neural explosion in a brain somewhere. How do you know that what you are doing right now isnt because someone is thinking to themselves..." and then he scanned his eyes over the last sentence of the post, wondering, waiting, desperately trying to understand where he was in a vast complicated world..."

what a long thread....

anyways, logic deals with valid structures of reasoning NOT with truth/falsity of premises. Then it gets more philosophical....

You can't prove that pink horses do not exist. There might be a pink horse galopping around the surface of the sun....or maybe at the bottom of the ocean....You just have to assume certain thing, like somebody said. For instance we all assume 1+1=2. We can't strictly determine it's thruth value, we only assume its truth.

If you take a set number of those assumed truths, or axioms, and use valid deductive rules on them (as someone said, of a sound and complete deductive system, like Fitch) You can ONLY get other "truths". Mathematics is purely based on a set number of axioms...

Pity I don't know how to write upside down E's and A's....otherwise we could get in to subject predicate logic w00t (yeah that would've been fun)

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All rhythm evolves around a kick...