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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J From what I've heard, the quality of E has been shit for years now. I don't think it's a particularly new "problem".

From what I've heard, people have been saying this since E came to exist in clubs. Nostalgia and all that...

In any case, from these descriptions I think a more likely problem is that the age of superclubs is waning - and it's about bloody time. They have been bleeding clubbers dry with insanely high prices on virtually everything, since otherwise they won't be able to cover the absurd fees of the big shot DJ egos they think they have to book in order to keep on pulling in the punters. They've had their comeuppance waiting for them.

Dance music is no longer the great draw it used to be at the end of the 90s. Clubs are no longer just for those who are really into the music and know 90% of the names on the flyer. People just go out to get wasted. Why spend three or four times the normal amount on a big glitzy affair with the same old DJs from the top of the DJ Mag poll when you can get equally wasted by simply forking over 10 quid at the smaller venue next door anyway?

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Originally posted by Zombikiller As pills are crap these days, get yourself some pure MDMA

And powder can be cut with shit aswell i would like to know how 'pure' the stuff your buying really is

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ive been taking E and going to clubs since 1994. my have times changed. mdma back then, was much better than mdma now. it was much speedier and made you much more hyper. if you took one in the car on the way to the club, but got stuck in traffic, and your pill kicked in, it would be PHYSICALLY IMPOSSIBLE to sit still and shut up. you simply had to stick your head out the window and scream "woo!" at the top of your lungs. it would be 73 degrees faranheit sitting in a car and you would be sweating and have the shakes and go pale. no dancing, no physical activity, just sitting in normal temps and you would sweat. if you did not have any water around, you would throw up, guaranteed. E nowadays, doesn't do that, even if you take a bunch. the touchy feely sexy part is stronger, but with less of the energy. somewhere around 2001 is when these sleepy E pills started showing up. i remember then because it was a gamble when purchasing, you never knew if it was going to be a sleepy E or a speedy E. then the speedy ones just got more rare until finally they were (and are to this day) extinct. the music changed from that point on, the faster bpm stuff became less popular and continues that trend today. from reading on erowid and a few books they recommend, turns out there is not just one type of mdma, there is actually atleast 3 different isomers or isotopes of mdma and it was described exactly that some of these versions vary in how amphetamine-like they are (amphetamine = speed).

i dont need E when i go out, im sure most are the same way in that you can easily have just as good a time drinking. alcohol kind of re-lives the E experience a bit in that you're in a better more sociable mood. so the good mood from drinking definitely helps atmosphere too. the key is good music.

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I'd really love it if drugs were to fuck off from the club scene entirely, then only the people who really enjoy the music would be there, not wankers who enjoy arps and fat kick drums when they are off their nut, and listen to pop music during the day.

yea.

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Originally posted by Sand Leaper From what I've heard, people have been saying this since E came to exist in clubs. Nostalgia and all that...

I have read articles about what they cut the MDMA up with these days, and the whole history of the drug. I don't think it's just a case of mass nostalgia, although inevitably that's part of it. It's doubtless been a progressive process too, which is why it's an old complaint.

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quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper From what I've heard, people have been saying this since E came to exist in clubs. Nostalgia and all that... In any case, from these descriptions I think a more likely problem is that the age of superclubs is waning - and it's about bloody time. They have been bleeding clubbers dry with insanely high prices on virtually everything, since otherwise they won't be able to cover the absurd fees of the big shot DJ egos they think they have to book in order to keep on pulling in the punters. They've had their comeuppance waiting for them. Dance music is no longer the great draw it used to be at the end of the 90s. Clubs are no longer just for those who are really into the music and know 90% of the names on the flyer. People just go out to get wasted. Why spend three or four times the normal amount on a big glitzy affair with the same old DJs from the top of the DJ Mag poll when you can get equally wasted by simply forking over 10 quid at the smaller venue next door anyway?

I personally do not agree with this atall. My original post said that clubbers generally like to get wasted to have a good night, but you are saying that the nature of the superclub makes no odds atall. I mean you seem to be implying that clubbers tend to be serial bash-head junkies, which isn't true. The vast majority are casual users, who will grow out of it in a couple of years, and who are impresed by the decor of the main-arena club. They wouldnt be satisfied with the shit-hole next door just because they were smashed; they wouldn't get smashed at the shit-hole next door.

As for the comment that superclubs are extortionate and are getting their comeuppance, again I disagree. It's a shame that seeing a superstar DJ isn't quite as cheap as it was a couple of years ago, but 9 hours of armin/tiesto/pvd/corsten et al is still significantly cheaper than 2 hours of U2, which nobosy seams to worry about. It only takes one good night for me to completely re-kindly my love of clubbing, and if its been good I never wonder if it was worth the money or not.

I don't think the problem is with the performance of DJ's at the moment, or even with the tunes that are being produced. The nights that I have had over X-mas have blown me away musically, and to me the appeal of the superclub is as great as ever. The problem is that people who are not so much into it, and who's quality of night is influenced by drugs will not see things the same way. I don't think there is a problem with the clubs themselves though

I'm starting to wonder if I'm just lousy at communicating on the internet or people are just masters at missing the point..

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Originally posted by JonDC I personally do not agree with this atall. My original post said that clubbers generally like to get wasted to have a good night, but you are saying that the nature of the superclub makes no odds atall. I mean you seem to be implying that clubbers tend to be serial bash-head junkies, which isn't true. The vast majority are casual users, who will grow out of it in a couple of years, and who are impresed by the decor of the main-arena club. They wouldnt be satisfied with the shit-hole next door just because they were smashed; they wouldn't get smashed at the shit-hole next door.

The casual user gravitates to whatever gets hyped up by the media and word of mouth. These days that is not people like PvD and Ferry Corsten, unlike back in '99. Therefore, it is very unlikely that they will want to shell out big bucks for getting wasted in superclubs these days, as there is very little via media hype that would make them willing to sacrifice that much money.

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As for the comment that superclubs are extortionate and are getting their comeuppance, again I disagree. It's a shame that seeing a superstar DJ isn't quite as cheap as it was a couple of years ago, but 9 hours of armin/tiesto/pvd/corsten et al is still significantly cheaper than 2 hours of U2, which nobosy seams to worry about. It only takes one good night for me to completely re-kindly my love of clubbing, and if its been good I never wonder if it was worth the money or not.

Comparing one of the biggest bands in the whole world to a DJ is completely pointless and irrelevant, as they are nowhere near the same level in terms of mainstream popularity. Plus, U2 aren't a bunch of guys who get paid to play other people's records. The sooner people stop lumping DJs into the musician-category because of these ridiculous stadium performances with tone deaf vocalist PAs, the better.

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I don't think the problem is with the performance of DJ's at the moment, or even with the tunes that are being produced. The nights that I have had over X-mas have blown me away musically, and to me the appeal of the superclub is as great as ever. The problem is that people who are not so much into it, and who's quality of night is influenced by drugs will not see things the same way. I don't think there is a problem with the clubs themselves though

They aren't so much into it because their attention has shifted to other things. Superclubs can appeal to you as much as they'd like, but it's no coincidence that the previously well-established club brands are dropping like flies these days. People are tired of getting the same package. If you don't mutate in the industry, you won't survive.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog Some people? Without drugs, crowds of 20,000 would be reduced to 5,000, and the events would last for 4 hours, rather than 8 or 12. People would leave after a few hours, too tired or lazy to go on. The "stadium rave" as we know it would be dead. As you said, clubs would also start shutting their doors. I think this would actually be great. Huge, stadium raves are fun, but imagine if instead of having twenty shit clubs in town, you had two quality ones playing top-notch music all the time. The crowd would become so much more intimate and connected, just like back when clubs like Wigan Casino and Paradise Garage were open, it was like a family, you knew everyone in the place, every week!

This is called listening to another genre

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Thank fuck real clubbing is going back underground for a few years, at least in London. Its where the best parties are at anyway. If I want nostagia I'll go to one of the monthly Crasher classics nights.

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Didn't read the whole thread, maybe I will later...
Anyway, I go to parties often (not the big name ones, but still), I never do drugs and I always have a great time.
Say whatever you but drugs are not necessary to have a good time.
If you can't have fun without them, you need to seek help.

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Originally posted by Gauss Didn't read the whole thread, maybe I will later... Anyway, I go to parties often (not the big name ones, but still), I never do drugs and I always have a great time. Say whatever you but drugs are not necessary to have a good time. If you can't have fun without them, you need to seek help.

Yes but for many people they are necessary - its a significant part of their clubbing experience. It's not really my place to question anybody's morals, I am just concerned that it will affect attendance in clubs