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Originally posted by Magnetonium I disagree that ICU provides "stability" and security ... they're a lot like Taliban to me. In particularly when it comes to human rights (women's rights), democracy, freedoms and all the fancy. They dont control the situation, they feud constantly, civil war is in full force, violence in Mogadishu is almost daily. Previous socialist dictators were horrible, but now the situation is nowhere better. Its hard to fight the radical Islamists, whether or not their case is good/bad or whether you support them or not. If you like Taliban, then ICU is down your valley. ICU can bring "stability" and "peace" to the country, but at what cost - and will they guarantee that the feuds will end? The country is made up of many clans and provinces which will be hard to control by force if ICU takes control, make no mistake about it. The pirates have been in full force ever since Socialist leader was toppled, and last time I checked, the Islamists could care less about the pirates ... ICU is not going to make friends with Kenya or especially Ethiopia, who are bitter enemies. Perpetual war between ICU and Ethiopia will be in the books if ICU takes the upper hand in Somalia. Ethiopia will never accept ICU ...

Even after watching the video I'd have to agree with this...

Ethiopia simply isn't going to let an Islamic revolution cross their borders, especially when the ICU is in a state of constant jihad.
Were they better off than before? Certainly looks that way and kudos to them for trying to straighten themselves out.
Hey if they want to live in the Dark Ages, that's their prerogative - the ICU has the religious numbers to back them up which they're obviously catering to to make themselves relevant in Somolia.
Ethiopia, being mostly Christian, is a place the ICU will not integrate well with...

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SO, it turns out that Islamic Courts are intermingled with the pirates. So much for Krypton's glory stories of great future for Somalia ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7737375.stm

Pirates 'working with Islamists'

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Somali pirates have been accused of forming what is described as an "unholy high seas alliance" with some of the country's Islamist insurgents. Jane's Terrorism and Security Monitor says certain insurgents are using pirates to smuggle weapons and supplies and help provide bases in return. The London-based newsletter says pirates are also training Somali hardliners in naval tactics. The links are traced to 2007, after Ethiopian forces invaded Somalia. The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), which took control of much of southern Somalia in 2006, had cracked down on pirate operations in Hobyo and Harardheere. They even freed a dhow captured by the pirates in August 2006. But after the UIC were ousted, various Islamic groups formed links with the pirates. Maritime force Bruno Schiemsky - who formerly monitored UN arms shipments into Somalia - says these links take a variety of forms: Islamists have used the pirates to bring in arms shipments and foreign fighters, providing weapons and training in their use in return. They also help with bases from which the pirates operate Hardliners, known as the Shabab, now have a degree of control over several pirate groups and provide operating funds and specialist weapons in return for a share of the ransoms being paid to free the ships and crew As many as 2,500 young Somalis have been trained by the Shabab at points all along the Somali coast The Islamists are using the pirates to train their own forces in naval tactics so that they can provide protection for arms being smuggled in Somalia from Eritrea. The article provides details of three arms shipments brought into the country by pirates. It says two shipments in May were for Sheikh Hassan Abdulle Hersi, who is also known as Hassan Turki, an Islamist leader who is based in southern Somalia near Kismayo. They are reported to have been picked up from islands off the Eritrean coast. One was landed south of the capital, Mogadishu, the other brought into Mogadishu port where businessmen are alleged to have bribed port officials to allow them to be landed. Another shipment arrived in July and is reported to have contained large quantities of weapons including specialist sniper rifles, heavy machine guns, guided anti-tank missiles and anti-aircraft guns, as well as ammunition. This is said to have been landed in Puntland in north-eastern Somalia. The maritime force organised by the Shabab - along the lines of the Sea Tigers operated by the Sri Lankan Tamil Tigers - is said to be located in southern Somalia. They are reported to be 480 strong, and the article says they will operate off the coast of Somalia and northern Kenya.

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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Religious tolerance? Another chapter of the religion of peace?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7464035.stm

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Somali Christians struggle in Kenya In a secluded house just outside the Kenyan capital, Nairobi, a group of men and women meet at least once a week to worship in secret. Their prayer session is simple and conducted in Somali. Elders take turns to pray or read verses from the Somali bible before a sermon is delivered. There are dozens of Somalis living in Nairobi who have converted from Islam to Christianity. Some say they have been practising Christianity for more than 10 years. But they live in constant fear of persecution from members of the Somali community, which is predominantly Muslim. There is a sizeable Somali community in Kenya, comprising ethnic Somali Kenyans, and a large number of refugees from Somalia. Most of the community lives in Nairobi's Eastleigh Estate, which is now referred to as Little Mogadishu, after Somalia's capital. Fundamentalist threat Many of the refugees fled the war in Somalia. For a few, it was the threat of religious persecution that forced them to leave their homes and seek refuge in Kenya. "There was a group of people who wanted to kill me, so I was one of the first refugees to leave Mogadishu because I knew I would be a target as soon as the government collapsed," says Michael, one of the converts. "The fundamentalists could easily attack me and kill me," he says. Some of his fellow converts were not so lucky. "They killed some of my friends. There was a small fellowship that used to meet in my house, about 12 of them, six of them were killed," he says. Despite fleeing to Kenya, where Christianity is the major religion, life has still not improved for the Somali Christians. They say they have suffered at the hands of their families and fellow Somalis in Kenya who are angry with their decision to change their religion. They have been targets of physical attacks and beatings. In other instances, they have had their wives and children taken away from them. Outcasts To ward off these reprisal attacks, many hold on to their Muslim names in an attempt to blend in. Away from home and rejected by their community, the converts say they have been forced to live as outcasts. The Council of Imams and Preachers of Kenya (CIPK) has rejected claims that the Somali Christians are facing persecution. Some say they have suffered at the hands of fellow Somalis "We are very saddened by these claims because Islam gives people the freedom to choose their faith," said Sheikh Hassan Omar, a CIPK official. "I don't believe the stories by the Somali Christians that they have faced persecution because they converted to Christianity. These are lies," Sheikh Omar said. He said Kenya has freedom of religion and association, and that the Somali Christians have the freedom to practise their faith and congregate and worship with other Christians. He dismissed the claims as a ruse to get try to get asylum in the US and other Western countries. "I would advise them, if they want to go [to the US], they should look for other channels and should not involve Islam and Muslims in the issue." But Khatazar Gondwe from Christian Solidarity Worldwide, which has been lobbying for protection for the Somali Christians, says there is a problem. "We have been in contact with the UNHCR (United Nations High Commission for Refugees) in Geneva who have acknowledged that this is an issue," Ms Gondwe says. Numbers growing The Somali Christians living in Kenya complain that the UNHCR in Nairobi has not been responsive to their plight. "According to the refugees, in some cases [the UNHCR] are very unsympathetic, if not hostile, and tell these poor people to go back to camps before they will deal with them," Ms Gondwe says. "In those camps, these people are in greater danger than they are even in Nairobi itself." The UNHCR office in Nairobi has denied these claims, saying all refugees get an opportunity to present their case and receive the necessary protection. UNHCR spokesman Emmanuel Nyabera says the agency has responded to a few cases concerning Somali Christians, but adds that some cases were rejected after they discovered that they were not genuine. Despite the hardships the face, this unique group of Christians says its numbers are growing. In the late 1990s, there were barely 20 Somali Christians in Nairobi, but now their number is close to 200, they say. And they pray that one day they will be accepted by a society that jealously guards its religious beliefs.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium SO, it turns out that Islamic Courts are intermingled with the pirates. So much for Krypton's glory stories of great future for Somalia ... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/7737375.stm Pirates 'working with Islamists'

Key words....

"The links are traced to 2007, after Ethiopian forces invaded Somalia.

The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), which took control of much of southern Somalia in 2006, had cracked down on pirate operations in Hobyo and Harardheere.

They even freed a dhow captured by the pirates in August 2006.

But after the UIC were ousted, various Islamic groups formed links with the pirates."





After losing power, do you honestly think they give a fuck about it now? Are you going to tell me the transitional government is better? Or that ethiopian occupation is good for Somalia? LOL...

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Originally posted by Krypton Key words.... "The links are traced to 2007, after Ethiopian forces invaded Somalia. The Union of Islamic Courts (UIC), which took control of much of southern Somalia in 2006, had cracked down on pirate operations in Hobyo and Harardheere. They even freed a dhow captured by the pirates in August 2006. But after the UIC were ousted, various Islamic groups formed links with the pirates." After losing power, do you honestly think they give a fuck about it now? Are you going to tell me the transitional government is better? Or that ethiopian occupation is good for Somalia? LOL...

That still doesnt make them the good guys.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

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Originally posted by Magnetonium That still doesnt make them the good guys.

Good for you? No. Good for Somalia? Not for you to decide...It's called self-determination. Sovereignty is another key word.

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Originally posted by Krypton Good for you? No. Good for Somalia? Not for you to decide...It's called self-determination. Sovereignty is another key word.

yeah..Its like when the "barbaric" Taliban are ousted for a democracy that a journalist gets a death sentence for slander agaisnt islam(although the sentence was later decreased)

If the people have a lack of concern for human rights in certain areas, even the most fair democracies will implement these policies because they reflect the values of the people.

but didnt u guys think it was fucked that they might be executing the pirates but only gave the man who stabbed his wife a fine?

I also feel real bad for the second kid that had lived in England, to get him accustomed to the first world and bring him back to wartorn Mogadishu must be a serious mindfuck

good video Krypton..just curios did u ever study poli sci?

any more vids of these type that u care to share?

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Originally posted by DJ Damerchi good video Krypton..just curios did u ever study poli sci? any more vids of these type that u care to share?

I'm currently finishing up a political science course right now, but it's just basic stuff. Antigone, Socrates, Crito, Federalist Papers, Declaration of Independence, and Democracy in America. I have a natural interest in politics anyways, mainly sympathetic to oppressed peoples of the world.

I've got PLENTY of videos, but for the sake of time, I'll PM you a list later...

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