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Originally posted by Krypton This is what pisses me off about the whole situation... Here in Tampa on AM talk radio, every station is dominated almost 100% by Bush loving right winging hate machines who talk nothing else but islamofascism. Or how stupid the democrats are. Or that if you are against the war, you're against the country. Rush Limbaugh, Tom Livin, MICHAEL SAVAGE, BILL O'REILLY!! Google them up. This is the garbage coming out of people's radios on their way to work (or anywhere else people listen to the radio) everyday. I have yet hear one political talk show on the radio that is not a GOP mouthpiece. Seriously, there is not one progressive talk station anywhere on the radio here in Tampa. Unless one is in liberal bastions like New York, the west coast, chicago; the GOP has a tight grip on political radio programs.

Actually Michael Savage has been rather harsh with Bush as of late. Mainly with not focusing enough on illegal immigration, dividing the country, pardoning Scooter Libby, and a few other things. Oh and you forgot to add that hack Sean Hannity on your list of Republican bots.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN that depends. if i know it to be untrue, its a lie. if i don't know that its untrue, i call it a mistake.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im more inclined to believe #2, in reference to the WMDs. i think bush is a buffoon with NO understanding about the world. and of course its "gross incompetence". ive been flying that flag for ages!

Why are you contradicting yourself?

And why no one seems to remember that Saddam was back and forth with the U.N. Weapons Inspectors prior to the war, I can't say. One minute he's letting them in. Then he's not. Then he let's them look "here", but not "there", etc.

He was playing a shell game for a reason.

I believe the statement, because it makes perfect sense. I just hope that one day they'll release the tapes of these interviews so that people can get a more honest view of the deception which Saddam engaged in that helped fuel the belief that he had WMD's.

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by donnybrasco I believe the statement, because it makes perfect sense. I just hope that one day they'll release the tapes of these interviews so that people can get a more honest view of the deception which Saddam engaged in that helped fuel the belief that he had WMD's.

So you're going to blame Saddam for the leadership failure of the Bush admin?

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Originally posted by Krypton So you're going to blame Saddam for the leadership failure of the Bush admin?

Re-read the article. The man was trying to make us believe he had WMD's.

God, what will it take to make the anti-Bush crowd give even the SLIGHTEST bit of credit to the Administration? He's not all wrong, all the time, 100% yah know.

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by donnybrasco Re-read the article. The man was trying to make us believe he had WMD's. Once is good enough.. God, what will it take to make the anti-Bush crowd give even the SLIGHTEST bit of credit to the Administration? He's not all wrong, all the time, 100% yah know.

1. I'm not god...

2. Bush deserves all the credit for the blunderous mistakes his administration made. I give him PLENTY of credit..

3. You need to read up on how restricted Iraq was in how it conducted itself.

-Economy racked by sanctions.
-Air space restricted by NATO.
-UNMOVIC teams did plenty of inspections which found and destroyed the WMDs after the first Gulf War.
-Military a shadow of its former self.

Who cares if Saddam acted as if he had WMDs? Does that somehow excuse the B administration for their stupid mistakes?

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Originally posted by Q5echo he fooled everyone. he fooled all intel services, even the Iranians

Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Stunned that you even exist. Sorry.

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Originally posted by Krypton 3. You need to read up on how restricted Iraq was in how it conducted itself... -Air space restricted by NATO.

NATO?! You mean the U.N....restrictions he agreed to at the end of the first Gulf War!

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Originally posted by Krypton -UNMOVIC teams did plenty of inspections which found and destroyed the WMDs after the first Gulf War.

They obviously thought he'd either hidden some, our acquired some more since the first war...so?

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Originally posted by Krypton -Military a shadow of its former self.

Again; So? WMD's were one thing, an standing army was another (and obviously NOT in the same threat category).

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Originally posted by Krypton Who cares if Saddam acted as if he had WMDs? Does that somehow excuse the B administration for their stupid mistakes?

When you consider his (Saddam's) own campaign of mis-information to make us believe that he did, how can YOU totally put ALL of the blame on the Bush Admin.??

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

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Originally posted by donnybrasco NATO?! You mean the U.N....restrictions he agreed to at the end of the first Gulf War!

Technicality

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They obviously thought he'd either hidden some, our acquired some more since the first war...so? Again; So? WMD's were one thing, an standing army was another (and obviously NOT in the same threat category). When you consider his (Saddam's) own campaign of mis-information to make us believe that he did, how can YOU totally put ALL of the blame on the Bush Admin.??

Study up on logical fallicies...

Bush commited a "burden of proof" fallacy. Saddam never says he does not have WMDs, therefore he must have WMDs. That is a HORRIBLE basis to say Iraq poses an imminant threat. Anyways, who supplied him with the chemical precursors for his weapons. The WEST!

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Originally posted by Krypton What do you call an untrue statement?

listen, youve said it yourself, the entire reason for going into Iraq was to get WMD's (thats the first misconception btw). why then would we go in, after making it the only reason, after going on record pleading in front of the entire world countless times making the assertion that Saddam did posses WMD's only to come out empty handed and not even produce any?

eventually Bush haters have to face an intellectual reality that idea of Bush lied about WMD's doesn't have anything to do with the facts of what the world suspected about Saddam for years long before Bush, but just forming an opinion based on inuendo and a general dislike of one person. that, in itself, is hardly a legitimate position to base a political worldview on.


"Bush lied people died" = intellectually shallow but sounds cool...have fun being cool.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Stunned that you even exist. Sorry.

a lot of things stun you. think thats a good thing?

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Originally posted by Q5echo listen, youve said it yourself, the entire reason for going into Iraq was to get WMD's (thats the first misconception btw). why then would we go in, after making it the only reason, after going on record pleading in front of the entire world countless times making the assertion that Saddam did posses WMD's only to come out empty handed and not even produce any? "Bush lied people died" = intellectually shallow but sounds cool...have fun being cool.

1. I never said anywhere in this thread that Bush lied, so you might want to reread what I said...
2. You can not defend a position that Bush didn't make untrue statements.
3. I said on the first page of this thread that there are two outcomes from the numerous untrue statements to rally support for regime-change...

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1. Bush lied, people died. 2. Bush made some of the greatest mistakes any president has ever made and is therefore incompetent as a leader. Whether the administration knowingly lied or not, the outcomes indicate gross incompetence.

I don't care whether he lied or not. All outcomes indicate GROSS incompetance. You just don't want to accept that fact.

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eventually Bush haters have to face an intellectual reality that idea of Bush lied about WMD's doesn't have anything to do with the facts of what the world suspected about Saddam for years long before Bush, but just forming an opinion based on inuendo and a general dislike of one person. that, in itself, is hardly a legitimate position to base a political worldview on.

Cute, but you might want to address my arguments themselves, instead of your perception of my personality...

Last edited by Krypton on Jan-26-2008 at 19:48