quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Once again, I would like to use this opportunity to thanks Mr. Nader for helping Bush win the 2000 elections. And y'all know what I am talking about. If you dont know what I am talking about - then you got issues.

Nader's wasn't exactly a supreme court judge.

EDIT: In my opinion, giving him the benefit of the doubt, he values idealism or pragmatisim... which isn't necessarily a bad thing, unless you consider ideals to be ficticious and lacking in merit. On the other hand, it can also have some pretty serious implications, given the situation. But some closer observation and pondering should make the contrived nature of this fiasco people in general still insist on giving meanig, would make one realize that in the larger scheme of things, he's not exactly hurting anybody and it isn't entirely fair to direct the amount of resentment he gets nor is he somehow completely accountable. A small variable can certainly change the outcome of an equation, so pragmaticaly there is legitimacy for concern or resentment. But overstating that certainly isn't warranted, becuase the assumption that makes is that the alternative is substantially better.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Feb-29-2008 at 10:54

Cool. Maybe he'll pull that extra 10,000 votes that throws it for the Dem.'s

GO NADER!!!!

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

By voting for Nader, you're essentially voting for the Republicans. He's got absolutely no chance of winning anything.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium By voting for Nader, you're essentially voting for the Republicans. He's got absolutely no chance of winning anything.

That's a pragmatic consequence depedent on popular vote, or maybe not, ever since the not so popular diebolt. Strategically, that's one predictable outcome. Eigther way, do you honestly think it'll have much impact? I guess it depends on your evaluation of pragmatism v.s idealism in both the short term and long run. I personally don't think it matters eigther way really, and I'm not even a nihilist. I see little point in maintaining status who when the domino effect is already propagating. Are you implying that Obama or Hillary are going to go against the grain and dismantle totalitarian legislation or will have significantly different policy? The precedent has already been set by the NeoCon administration which I don't see being rolled back, short of a revolution which won't happen eigther.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z That's a pragmatic consequence depedent on popular vote, or maybe not, ever since the not so popular diebolt. Are you implying that Obama or Hillary are going to go against the grain and dismantle totalitarian legislation or will have significantly different policy? The precedent has already been set by the NeoCon administration which I don't see being rolled back, short of a revolution which won't happen eigther.

Its the truth - Nader has essentially no backing among the most important "voters" - the big business. Politicians dont work for the people, they work for the companies that funded them to power. Its the way of things in USA (and many other countries too). Average people, the citizens, they dont really vote (aka sheep) - they just show up at a polling stations and vote for whomever Deep Pockets have told them to vote via the television and radio campaigns, because the money is the only thing thats needed to make people believe whatever, to make them vote for whomever Deep Pockets want to vote for. Just like Obama and Clinton they dont speak from the heart. They read scripts that are made by other people who are are paid money to represent an agenda - lots of edits, approvals, and discussions of what people will think of this or that is said. Very carefully choreographed, planned, like a movie or a show or a game. There's really no emphasis to do stuff for the people, because the people dont elect politicians to power.

OK, enough of my ramblings.

I am still bitter about the 2000 elections. Tell me exactly what do you think voting for Nader will achieve?

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

^^^That being said, would people rather vote for big business representing employment, productivity, and a stable economy (Republican)?

Or would everyone rather vote for the Trial Lawyers (Historically, one of the biggest contributors to the Democrats), who produce nothing and who's only real purpose is to litigate this country to death in an attempt to spread the wealth around?

Fuck the Democrats and their Socialist "Great Society". Bullshit, costly pipe-dreams. I don't want to live in a country that thinks "rich" people should be punished for doing better than the average dumb-fuck out there. It's an infantile mentality. And what's worse; It's counter-productive to a free market, which is the only real healthy way to run a country.

I'm not a really big fan of Republicans either, but I'll take what they're selling ANY day over this "poor me, I just need a hand-out" crap that the Democrats have been peddling EVERY damn election year for the past 40 years! It's old, tired and goes against the principles of success that this country was founded on. It's also been tried already (socialism and communism are FAILED ideologies).

It's the party of the ignorant, petty masses. And what's ironic, is that the people at the top of the party KNOW that what they are doing is pandering to this ignorance, purely to get votes. They know that it's counter-productive. But they're making bank off of this support, so they just don't care. The party of the "working class", my ass. The Kennedy's, the Clinton's, Obama, etc...they're ALL making just as much money as Republicans are, but at least the Republican party backs something viable that creates and adds wealth to the country; Industry!

The Democrat constituency just wants what those who have worked harder for already have, and they vote for and support candidates who would take it away from them.

It's sickening how STUPID and childish the human race is sometimes...

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

Last edited by donnybrasco on Mar-01-2008 at 02:03

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Its the truth - Nader has essentially no backing among the most important "voters" - the big business. Politicians dont work for the people, they work for the companies that funded them to power. Its the way of things in USA (and many other countries too). Average people, the citizens, they dont really vote (aka sheep) - they just show up at a polling stations and vote for whomever Deep Pockets have told them to vote via the television and radio campaigns, because the money is the only thing thats needed to make people believe whatever, to make them vote for whomever Deep Pockets want to vote for. Just like Obama and Clinton they dont speak from the heart. They read scripts that are made by other people who are are paid money to represent an agenda - lots of edits, approvals, and discussions of what people will think of this or that is said. Very carefully choreographed, planned, like a movie or a show or a game. There's really no emphasis to do stuff for the people, because the people dont elect politicians to power. OK, enough of my ramblings.

In acknowledging of that, what's the point of voting period or perpetuating a collapsing system? To slow down entropy? What pragmatic benefit does that yeild in the long run? I hope you see the futility and contradiction here.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium I am still bitter about the 2000 elections. Tell me exactly what do you think voting for Nader will achieve?

I let go of it, there's no point in letting biterness tarnish the essense of yourself. It's baggage like many other things... no point in carrying for the rest of your life when there's nothing you can do about it.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco The Democrat constituency just wants what those who have worked harder for already have, and they vote for and support candidates who would take it away from them.

What makes you think I associate myself with or support eigther party? Or would even vote in the first place?

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco It's sickening how STUPID and childish the human race is sometimes...

As much of an abberation from the norm it is, I pretty much agree with you on that count.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z What makes you think I associate myself with or support eigther party? Or would even vote in the first place?

What makes you think my post was directed at you?

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

quote:

Originally posted by donnybrasco ^^^That being said, would people rather vote for big business representing employment, productivity, and a stable economy (Republican)? Or would everyone rather vote for the Trial Lawyers (Historically, one of the biggest contributors to the Democrats), who produce nothing and who's only real purpose is to litigate this country to death in an attempt to spread the wealth around? Fuck the Democrats and their Socialist "Great Society". Bullshit, costly pipe-dreams. I don't want to live in a country that thinks "rich" people should be punished for doing better than the average dumb-fuck out there. It's an infantile mentality. And what's worse; It's counter-productive to a free market, which is the only real healthy way to run a country. I'm not a really big fan of Republicans either, but I'll take what they're selling ANY day over this "poor me, I just need a hand-out" crap that the Democrats have been peddling EVERY damn election year for the past 40 years! It's old, tired and goes against the principles of success that this country was founded on. It's also been tried already (socialism and communism are FAILED ideologies). It's the party of the ignorant, petty masses. And what's ironic, is that the people at the top of the party KNOW that what they are doing is pandering to this ignorance, purely to get votes. They know that it's counter-productive. But they're making bank off of this support, so they just don't care. The party of the "working class", my ass. The Kennedy's, the Clinton's, Obama, etc...they're ALL making just as much money as Republicans are, but at least the Republican party backs something viable that creates and adds wealth to the country; Industry! The Democrat constituency just wants what those who have worked harder for already have, and they vote for and support candidates who would take it away from them. It's sickening how STUPID and childish the human race is sometimes...

no no..... i think its greedy, childish and egotistical to think that someone can't share a little part of their wealth especially if they are extremly rich by using that money to do something positive for the country itself, in other words people need to stop being selfish...

___________________
"real social change for the oppressed people's can only be brought through a revolution by the people."

quote:

Originally posted by SiLveR_NrGy_985 no no..... i think its greedy, childish and egotistical to think that someone can't share a little part of their wealth especially if they are extremly rich by using that money to do something positive for the country itself, in other words people need to stop being selfish...

If they are wealthier than middle-class, they already ARE doing something for the country by paying more in taxes, for one thing.

They are also likely engaged in creating work for others via whatever it is that they manufacture or whatever service it is that they provide.

___________________
The thing about money? It makes you do things that you don't want to do

Shaolin, yes yes, I forgot to add to my rumblings that its pretty much pointless to vote, except for maybe your local town councillor which will make more difference. Elections in the bigger picture, global/national scale are a clever game/show, as I described, and there's really no independent choice. By voting for either of the current USA politicians running for presidency there's hardly anything to choose from ... I dont trust a single word out coming out of the candidates' mouths. They know that to capture the presidency its not honesty that matters, but who outwits and outsmarts and outfunds the other competitor. Brilliant flashes in front of the public, carefully orchestrated campaign stops, video editing, smiles, catchy words, etc. etc. People love it. They probably know deep inside its all horseshit. But they're like sheep, they enjoy it and vote for the biggest liar. Trust me, the future will be worse.

___________________
Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture