quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 What's interesting is how the wingnutters cried "FOUL!" every time a reference or parallel was made to Bush and Hitler's fascism (which I personally opposed, don't get me wrong), but here comes along everyone's favorite mama's boy chickenhawk Jonah making the exact same reference of fascists to us silly libruls. Then again, IOKIYAR (It's OK If You're a Republican), so nevermind. As a sidenote, I really thought we were more like Communists, while the neocons/conservatives were more like Fascists. So now we've cornered both extremes? Make up your mind, little Jonah.

so refusing to seat delegates or even refusing a recount is somehow not fascist?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo so refusing to seat delegates or even refusing a recount is somehow not fascist?

Both states knew the rules, and both refused to abide by them. Granted, the Democratic delegates down in Florida were more or less forced by the Republican committees who moved it forward, but Michigan has no excuse. If they refuse to play by the rules, why would anyone give them exception now?

Furthermore, Hillary also agreed with those rules, then had the fucking audacity to sit on her little perch and claim victory in both, DESPITE knowing neither one counted and despite Obama's name not even being on the ballot in Michigan.

Besides, both campaigns are looking for a compromise re-vote in both states anyway in the coming months, so the point is likely moot regardless. Even if Hillary wins both (probably wouldn't win Michigan, but just for the sake of argument), on projection alone she still wouldn't be able to catch Obama in delegate count.

So while little Jonah's book is cute and rather hypocritical, I don't see how your point of calling us silly libruls fascists works here.

Added in Edit: Truth be told, I think there's some definite dirty tactics going on here in Hillary's camp, but that hardly calls for a name of "fascist" in any manner. I think the word was disgusting for certain liberal commentators to use against Bush in the past despite some of his egregious actions (and seeing the wingnut outrage as a consequence), and I find it equally disgusting for a wingnut to imply it in the same fashion against any liberal, even Hillary. It's patently absurd and over the top.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

Last edited by MisterOpus1 on Mar-09-2008 at 18:46

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Both states knew the rules, and both refused to abide by them. Granted, the Democratic delegates down in Florida were more or less forced by the Republican committees who moved it forward, but Michigan has no excuse. If they refuse to play by the rules, why would anyone give them exception now? Furthermore, Hillary also agreed with those rules, then had the fucking audacity to sit on her little perch and claim victory in both, DESPITE knowing neither one counted and despite Obama's name not even being on the ballot in Michigan. Besides, both campaigns are looking for a compromise re-vote in both states anyway in the coming months, so the point is likely moot regardless. Even if Hillary wins both (probably wouldn't win Michigan, but just for the sake of argument), on projection alone she still wouldn't be able to catch Obama in delegate count. So while little Jonah's book is cute and rather hypocritical, I don't see how your point of calling us silly libruls fascists works here. Added in Edit: Truth be told, I think there's some definite dirty tactics going on here in Hillary's camp, but that hardly calls for a name of "fascist" in any manner. I think the word was disgusting for certain liberal commentators to use against Bush in the past despite some of his egregious actions (and seeing the wingnut outrage as a consequence), and I find it equally disgusting for a wingnut to imply it in the same fashion against any liberal, even Hillary. It's patently absurd and over the top.

listen, i really don't disagree with anything you said. rules are rules, but what about the voters Opus?

can there be a compromise that both candidates can agree on so, at the very least, not disenfranchise party votes and voters that are just merely at the mercy of said rules?

anyways my more or less lighthearted Liberal Fascism post was in response Spacy Orange's knuckle-headed suggestion that lifes a bitch. i really wasn't referencing anything about the substance of the book or Hillary.

it's a great book though, and it's not on the NYT bestseller list all this time for nothing

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo listen, i really don't disagree with anything you said. rules are rules, but what about the voters Opus? can there be a compromise that both candidates can agree on so, at the very least, not disenfranchise party votes and voters that are just merely at the mercy of said rules?

Not really - it's unfortunate that the voters in Michigan and Florida didn't get to cast votes that count... but it is their state officials that are ultimately responsible for breaking the rules - if they feel their interests were not well represented, they should vote those officials out of office in 2008/2010. The voters weren't at the mercy of rules, they were at the mercy of the officials that decided to circumvent those rules.

quote:

it's a great book though, and it's not on the NYT bestseller list all this time for nothing

Ah, so by extension, that would be the same reason all of Ann Coulter's books consistently make that list too, right?

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo listen, i really don't disagree with anything you said. rules are rules, but what about the voters Opus? can there be a compromise that both candidates can agree on so, at the very least, not disenfranchise party votes and voters that are just merely at the mercy of said rules?

If there's new primaries in both of those states in the coming months, I would certainly think that's the best compromise between both candidates that would ensure the voice of the voters in those states be heard.

If, however, there is no compromise, and those two states do not count, that's unfortunate and I agree that unfortunately it's at the behest of the voters. It would suck, to be sure, but again the states knew the rules and decided not to play by them. I know it's not fair, but especially in the case of Michigan, why choose to break them knowing they would disenfranchise their own voters? Just plain stupid on their part.

quote:

anyways my more or less lighthearted Liberal Fascism post was in response Spacy Orange's knuckle-headed suggestion that lifes a bitch. i really wasn't referencing anything about the substance of the book or Hillary.

I gotcha.

quote:

it's a great book though, and it's not on the NYT bestseller list all this time for nothing

Yes, I know. Anything that fills the belief system of a particular group of people will sell, including books like Michael Moore, Al Franken, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, etc. etc. What else is new?

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Yes, I know. Anything that fills the belief system of a particular group of people will sell, including books like Michael Moore, Al Franken, Bill O'Reilly, Ann Coulter, Sean Hannity, etc. etc. What else is new?

what is writing nonfiction if it's not to fullfill a particular belief system?

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov The voters weren't at the mercy of rules, they were at the mercy of the officials that decided to circumvent those rules.

ok, point taken

still don't see that, as a voter, i wouldn't be feeling a little jipped by the system or the ego's within the system without some sort of compromise.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo ok, point taken still don't see that, as a voter, i wouldn't be feeling a little jipped by the system or the ego's within the system without some sort of compromise.

Oh, I think the voters are perfectly within their rights to be pissed off - but I think anger at the system would be misdirected from the real source of their disenfranchisement.

___________________

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo what is writing nonfiction if it's not to fullfill a particular belief system?

I don't disagree. I'm more or less pointing out the obvious.

___________________
Whence September dusk grows crisper still,
with leaves all crimson conquered,
I yearn to shout,
and dance about,
and stick pickles in my honker...