quote:

Originally posted by guerra-monstru Could you explain it to me what this means?

I'll give you a hint, the CFR, Bildergerg group, and Trilateral Commision have had top politicians and CEOs from all over the world attend meetings that went unreported in the press for years, and still go completely uncovered, not to mention are heavily guarded to maintain security and keep and kind of journalists or press completely out and the public absolutely in the dark. Doesn't sound very democratic to me. Especially when an unknown governor from Arkansas goes to meeting before his 1992 campaign and magically becomes president. That's just one of many examples. Some key funders are the Morgans, Rockefellars, and Rothchilds. That should tell you a little something. Ofcourse, it means absolutely nothing to some people, just pure coincidence.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov He can't, so he cops out by telling everyone else they are simply too stupid to understand.

I guess it's too bad you feel that way, you're really doing yourself a disservice.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I'll give you a hint, the CFR, Bildergerg group, and Trilateral Commision have had top politicians and CEOs from all over the world attend meetings that went unreported in the press for years, and still go completely uncovered, not to mention are heavily guarded to maintain security and keep and kind of journalists or press completely out and the public absolutely in the dark. Doesn't sound very democratic to me. Especially when an unknown governor from Arkansas goes to meeting before his 1992 campaign and magically becomes president. That's just one of many examples. Some key funders are the Morgans, Rockefellars, and Rothchilds. That should tell you a little something. Ofcourse, it means absolutely nothing to some people, just pure coincidence.

First of all, your allegation surrounded the Council on Foreign Relations, which is a far cry different than the Trilateral Commission, etc.

Second, your evidence consists of nothing other than "we don't know what they do behind closed doors" - which isn't really even true. The Council on Foreign Relations is akin to the National Honor Society - the leading foreign policy thinkers in the country are invited in order to create a forum for the free exchange of ideas. You might get that idea just by looking at its membership - it's basically a who's who of the foreign policy establishment in the United States. An invitation to join the CFR is considered the pinnacle of a career in foreign policy - it is basically an acknowledgment that you are one on the forefront of thinking and influence in foreign affairs.

It is not a secret society - it's membership is well-known, the events it puts on are indeed well-attended and frequent (and reported in the media from time to time). Your allegations about secret meetings are the board meetings - what organization invites reporters to their board meetings? Why should a private organization be completely transparent to the press? And furthermore, what does 'democracy' have anything to do with it? Only members have the right to know what goes on at meetings. If you want transcripts of their public meetings, well, they provide those:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/by_type/transcript.html

In addition, it is simply absurd to think that the CFR has some common agenda that all of its members push in concert. It comprises officials and academics from all theoretical and practical perspectives - these people rarely, if ever, agree with each other on anything. Your insinuation that Bill Clinton won the Presidency because of his membership in the CFR is REALLY absurd - George H. W. Bush was a member as well. You think the entire CFR orchestrated in concert (and you provide no evidence of how this could possibly be done) the election of a new member over the re-election of a well-respected President with a strong international affairs resume?

For goodness sake, Dick Cheney and Bill Clinton are both members of the CFR - you really want to tell me that they are in cahoots in some grand scheme to manipulate and deceive the entire world?

God, just take a look at what CFR publishes - whether through op-eds, pieces for their think tank, or in Foreign Affairs - if you can provide a common foreign policy agenda that is consistent through everything they publish, I'll put you in my will. CFR is about the free exchange of a wide and disparate array of viewpoints, nothing more.

So while you can sit in your basement and connect all the dots you want, you should know that you just look silly.

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But I'm sure they invited Angelina Jolie to be a member of the CFR because she's such an important component to their plan to take over the world.

I've had the opportunity to discuss the CFR and its various events with several members, and I can tell you that they certainly do not have a common agenda of world domination or whatever it is you are alleging they do.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov First of all, your allegation surrounded the Council on Foreign Relations, which is a far cry different than the Trilateral Commission, etc.

Facts are not allegations, nice try.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Second, your evidence consists of nothing other than "we don't know what they do behind closed doors" - which isn't really even true.

If I have an hour long conversation of which I publicly distribute a selective clip of one minute, that's not exactly anything even remotely resembling any form of transparency.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov The Council on Foreign Relations is akin to the National Honor Society - the leading foreign policy thinkers in the country are invited in order to create a forum for the free exchange of ideas. You might get that idea just by looking at its membership - it's basically a who's who of the foreign policy establishment in the United States. An invitation to join the CFR is considered the pinnacle of a career in foreign policy - it is basically an acknowledgment that you are one on the forefront of thinking and influence in foreign affairs.

Yes, war criminals like Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney are at "the forefront of thining."

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov It is not a secret society - it's membership is well-known, the events it puts on are indeed well-attended and frequent (and reported in the media from time to time).

No shit. That's really funny coming from someone who's probably never set a foot in a masonic lodge or ever read a single gnostic text. I know what a "secret society" is, and certainly don't need an explanation from someone as clueless as you on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov Your allegations about secret meetings are the board meetings - what organization invites reporters to their board meetings? Why should a private organization be completely transparent to the press?

Gee, I don't know... maye because they're formulating policy? Which again is not a private enterprise to be kept out of public scrutiny.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov And furthermore, what does 'democracy' have anything to do with it? Only members have the right to know what goes on at meetings. If you want transcripts of their public meetings, well, they provide those: http://www.cfr.org/publication/by_type/transcript.html

Sniplets don't mean a thing, but they certainly appease people like yourself. Tell me something I don't already know.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov In addition, it is simply absurd to think that the CFR has some common agenda that all of its members push in concert. It comprises officials and academics from all theoretical and practical perspectives - these people rarely, if ever, agree with each other on anything. Your insinuation that Bill Clinton won the Presidency because of his membership in the CFR is REALLY absurd - George H. W. Bush was a member as well. You think the entire CFR orchestrated in concert (and you provide no evidence of how this could possibly be done) the election of a new member over the re-election of a well-respected President with a strong international affairs resume?

The CFR is just one of the many big boys clubs, it jusp happens to be the least discreet one.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov For goodness sake, Dick Cheney and Bill Clinton are both members of the CFR - you really want to tell me that they are in cahoots in some grand scheme to manipulate and deceive the entire world?

US foreign policy (since WW2) has pretty much always been pretty fucked up regardless of weather it's a Democrat or Republican in office. I fail to see the point you're trying to make. Cheney might be the one of the biggest dicks we've seen in a while, but that's simply in relative terms. Politicians are (generally) nothing more than useful idiots that you're giving too much credit. They aren't exactly the ones calling the shots, it's their corporate master that are and they're simply doing their bidding. Name one foreign policy issue that's doesn't revolve around corperate interests or strategic interests (eventually relating to long term or short term corperate interests).

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov God, just take a look at what CFR publishes - whether through op-eds, pieces for their think tank, or in Foreign Affairs - if you can provide a common foreign policy agenda that is consistent through everything they publish, I'll put you in my will. CFR is about the free exchange of a wide and disparate array of viewpoints, nothing more.

Uhhh, no, there's isn't much difference at all between foreign policy issues once the presedent has already been set. Is there a single President with a dramatically different stance on Iraeli policy? Take a look at the current ones, not a single one of them can do jack shit about the Iraq war as it's already been set in motion. The end results as far as corporate interests go are going to be the same regardless.

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So while you can sit in your basement and connect all the dots you want, you should know that you just look silly.

LOL, what basement? It's nice and sunny outside. I hope you realize (and I think it should be apparent by now) that I don't really give a fuck about the former, regardless of how important such superficial things may be to you.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov But I'm sure they invited Angelina Jolie to be a member of the CFR because she's such an important component to their plan to take over the world. I've had the opportunity to discuss the CFR and its various events with several members, and I can tell you that they certainly do not have a common agenda of world domination or whatever it is you are alleging they do.

It's to bolster public image, nothing more. That's something you insinuated, not me. There's other organizations you don't know jack about for that task lol.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Facts are not allegations, nice try.

The only "fact" you provided was a partial list of membership. I can only work with what you give me.

quote:

If I have an hour long conversation of which I publicly distribute a selective clip of one minute, that's not exactly anything even remotely resembling any form of transparency.

I suggest you actually read the transcripts.

http://www.cfr.org/publication/1560...pe%2Ftranscript

There's a good one to start with - I think you'll see that they include a tiny bit more than a "one minute snippet."

quote:

Yes, war criminals like Henry Kissinger and Dick Cheney are at "the forefront of thining."

They formulate and implement US foreign policy. Regardless of whether or not you or I agree to it, they are extraordinarily influential and are at the forefront of their field. It just highlights again the disparate array of views and opinions among members of the CFR.

quote:

No shit. That's really funny coming from someone who's probably never set a foot in a masonic lodge or ever read a single gnostic text. I know what a "secret society" is, and certainly don't need an explanation from someone as clueless as you on the subject.

I didn't tell you anything about what a secret society is - I just pointed out something that isn't. I might not know the first thing about what legally constitutes a multi-national corporation, but I can tell you with reasonable certainty that the local Kwik-E-Mart doesn't fit the bill.

quote:

Gee, I don't know... maye because they're formulating policy? Which again is not a private enterprise to be kept out of public scrutiny.

And maybe they're dressing babies up like bunny rabbits. You are throwing out unsubstantiated allegations again. Mere application of logic would tell you that putting 100 people, with vastly different conceptions of the direction that US foreign affairs should take, in the same room for an hour doesn't lend itself very well to crafting a coherent, cogent, and unanimously approved foreign policy.

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Sniplets don't mean a thing, but they certainly appease people like yourself. Tell me something I don't already know.

You didn't click on the link. Those are full transcripts (except for in a few cases).

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The CFR is just one of the many big boys clubs, it jusp happens to be the least discreet one.

Great.

quote:

US foreign policy (since WW2) has pretty much always been pretty fucked up regardless of weather it's a Democrat or Republican in office. I fail to see the point you're trying to make. Cheney might be the one of the biggest dicks we've seen in a while, but that's simply in relative terms. Politicians are (generally) nothing more than useful idiots that you're giving too much credit. They aren't exactly the ones calling the shots, it's their corporate master that are and they're simply doing their bidding.

Well, your definition of "fucked up" foreign policy not withstanding, certainly you aren't about to deny any nuance or difference between various foreign policy doctrines over the past 50 years? This coordination bullshit is really simplistic.

quote:

Name one foreign policy issue that's doesn't revolve around corperate interests or strategic interests (eventually relating to long term or short term corperate interests).

Every policy has winners and losers. It's easy for you to cherry-pick corporate winners in any foreign policy decision. But if you're asking for foreign policy directives that I don't believe were directly motivated by corporate interests, than I'll throw out PEPFAR, UN Peace-keeping missions, efforts made through USAID and American participation in UNICEF and the WHO, as well as coordination of American and international NGO efforts through UNHCR and UNDP.

quote:

Uhhh, no, there's isn't much difference at all between foreign policy issues once the presedent has already been set. Is there a single President with a dramatically different stance on Iraeli policy? Take a look at the current ones, not a single one of them can do jack shit about the Iraq war as it's already been set in motion. The end results as far as corporate interests go are going to be the same regardless.

Wow, ok. Read international relations theory. Please. Or better yet, just read John Lewis Gaddis' work on foreign policy strategies during the Cold War or Andrew Bennett's "Taking Sides" - which presents the various arguments surrounding the twenty most critical foreign policy issues of the contemporary era from the perspective of policy-makers and leading analysts. That would be a good place to start.

If you can't see nuance between say, the George H. W. Bush Administration and the Clinton Administration, to say nothing of the current Bush Administration, then you've really drunk the Kool-Aid on this one.

quote:

LOL, what basement? It's nice and sunny outside. I hope you realize (and I think it should be apparent by now) that I don't really give a fuck about the former, regardless of how important such superficial things may be to you.

I don't really put a whole lot of value on basements... but it's nice to know that you don't care about them either.

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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z It's to bolster public image, nothing more. That's something you insinuated, not me. There's other organizations you don't know jack about for that task lol.

So if the CFR is just around to "bolster public image" - why use it to slime Senators Obama and McCain?

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quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So if the CFR is just around to "bolster public image" - why use it to slime Senators Obama and McCain?

Jesus, that's only one of the few things you've completely misread somehow.

Hint:

key word - Angelina Jolie

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Jesus, that's only one of the few things you've completely misread somehow. Hint: key word - Angelina Jolie

Work on your transitions from thought to thought. That would help.

Certainly they didn't invite Angelina Jolie to be a member of the CFR for her great work as a UNHCR Special Ambassador?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8022702217.html

Naw, doesn't fit the conspiracy.

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