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Originally posted by Krypton The constitution says the right to life, liberty, and happiness are self-evident. Wouldn't health be included in life or at least happiness?

Those are all rights to things that can't be taken away (so-called "negative rights"). The "life" part means that the government can't come and kill you. Since health care is a provided service, you'd have to argue if health care is an entitlement, not a right...at least in terms of the rights you listed.

Well anyways, our government will do what's best for the insurance companies, so us Americans shouldn't count on getting any help any time soon. Especially when the current regime cares more about the Green Zone than taking care of domestic issues. They just throw money at problems. Notice how when the economy imploded, the government went on a spending spree with tax payer rebates, corporate bailouts, and liquidity infusions. That'll do wonders for an already falling dollar...

Health care in America? Don't count on it....

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I'm just curious which country was the first to have socialized medicine?

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Originally posted by Dervish But the key point is kids. They have no choice they are born into their family. Ok the family is intimately responsible but... I want every sick kid in my country to get the same help if possible. And I'm prepared to pay for it.

the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works. i am a former welfare child. our family was on it for 7 years. health care was provided along with financial help. so really, your worry, is perpetuated by uneducated idiots that try to make it out like our system is total shit.

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Originally posted by bas Dual exhaust tips on dual exhaust = QUAD EXHAUST = 300 gain in horsepower. Duh

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Originally posted by bas Undies with a dickhole aren't good for guys. Your balls can get caught in them. That's why I prefer to go over the gate instead of through the fence.

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Originally posted by Krypton Well anyways, our government will do what's best for the insurance companies, so us Americans shouldn't count on getting any help any time soon. Especially when the current regime cares more about the Green Zone than taking care of domestic issues. They just throw money at problems. Notice how when the economy imploded, the government went on a spending spree with tax payer rebates, corporate bailouts, and liquidity infusions. That'll do wonders for an already falling dollar... Health care in America? Don't count on it....

Our government will continue to do what's best for itself, which is nothing. They're in a horrific situation at the moment, and the easiest thing is to do nothing and hope people continue to blame health care problems on doctors, insurers, hospitals, etc.

The problem is the demand for health care is high, and is only getting higher. Our government already spends more than any other on the health of its citizens and making health care "free" will not decrease that cost. Meeting those demands under a socialized system will be extremely expensive for the government...and it knows that. So...how do you limit that demand? You can continue on the system we have, where price is a limiting factor, or you can limit health care resources so supply becomes a limiting factor. Step one is already in place, as we can see with the amount of uninsured in the US and the second step is as well as a full 1/3rd of all US hospitals lose money each year and are expected to close within the next 5-10 years.

I'm not trying to paint a bleak picture, just reality. There is basically no acceptable way to curtail an unending and expensive demand for health care, you can affect supply or increase costs to lower demand, but both make people upset. Doing nothing is the best way the government can accomplish both those goals by not acting directly or spending money.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works. i am a former welfare child. our family was on it for 7 years. health care was provided along with financial help. so really, your worry, is perpetuated by uneducated idiots that try to make it out like our system is total shit.

I don't think you've heard of the folks who have had to declare bankruptcy over medical bills, huh?

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works.

A good example of how socializing the costs of healthcare can help people.

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Originally posted by gehzumteufel the common thought, which coincidentally, happens to be a total farce, is that the really poor families and their children have no healthcare. the US has a thing called "Healthy Families." this program is for the poor. it gives them health care they otherwise would not be able to afford. i can attest to the fact that it works. i am a former welfare child. our family was on it for 7 years. health care was provided along with financial help. so really, your worry, is perpetuated by uneducated idiots that try to make it out like our system is total shit.

Is it free though? Or just "low cost"?

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If you can read this, I'm seriously fucking bored.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles The Constitution doesn't include a "right to happiness," but a right to pursue happiness. Pretty big difference...

Well, there's that, and there's the small issue of that being from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution.

True.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles A good example of how socializing the costs of healthcare can help people.

yeah. overall im not totally against socialized health care, but at the same time i am. there is no happy medium is why im mostly against it.

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Originally posted by Dervish Is it free though? Or just "low cost"?

to the poor, it is free. we never paid a dime while on it.

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Originally posted by bas Dual exhaust tips on dual exhaust = QUAD EXHAUST = 300 gain in horsepower. Duh

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Originally posted by bas Undies with a dickhole aren't good for guys. Your balls can get caught in them. That's why I prefer to go over the gate instead of through the fence.