Sub-harmonic synthesizers (Rbass/Maxbass) are the devil. The plague. Satan incarnate.

Avoid at all costs. *holds up a cross and several onions*

90% of the time you shouldn't use it ever. And if you do use it, only use a smidgen of Rbass, a smidgen. It is cayenne pepper, and it can really fuck the low-end (including low-mids) of a mix.

Focus on mixing first, using EQ, and compression... before you even dream about an RBass.

Hell, if you aren't getting enough thump, try a different bass patch on your synth, or tweak the patch.

If you’re new to mixing a track, run far away from RBass (or MaxBass) UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I used RBass and MaxBass constantly when I was younger, and learning how to mix. It was my bass-band-aid. Now, I don't touch it except for experimental effects, and if I really need some perceived bass. Sub-harmonic synthesizers can be really scary.

That's my warning. If you want to experiment, try building a full mix without a sub-harmonic synthesizer, and then adding in an RBass or MaxBass on different channel, and gradually increasing the effect just to hear what it actually does to a mix.

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How pointed.
Arrite, then help me find out whether I know what I'm doing or not.

They sound clear on a pair of Rokit 8's, but I compress it when another low end sound(usually only the kick) plays. If they're the only low end components, is this still a bad use?

As I understand it, RBass looks at the existing low frequencies and puts harmonics above and below, depending one whats there. I can imagine that this would cause big issues if that sound is run through delay or reverb, or if its competing with other low sounds. But otherwise, is it still so bad?

Please go into detail; If I'm doing something somehow wrong, I've gotta know how.

^^^ I agree about the bass enhancers... dnt use em. RBass sounds particularly s**t!

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I don't layer it, I separate it out and process them independently.

I think its fine to layer stuff ... thats how you get thick texture. I layer heaps of stuff. Very reaely would i use a single oscilator cos it will generally sound too week. Thats on all my synths not just bass. Sometimes i put a doubler on my rythym synth tracks and stabs to strengthen them up. Also theres no real hard and fast rules. Sometimes peeps on here seem to say "do this like this!" but theres lots of ways to do things. Just make sure its really well compressed if its bass i guess. Bass can be "waffly".
Listen a half dozen different tunes from different producers and hear how different the bass is on them all. Theres allsorts of ways to do it.
Low end production i found the hardest to get good at i'd have to say but you'l get there. You need to train your ears more than nething and that takes time.

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quote:

Originally posted by MOK I can imagine that this would cause big issues if that sound is run through delay or reverb, or if its competing with other low sounds. But otherwise, is it still so bad?

As a general rule, no plug-in is bad. But what is bad is how a plug-in is applied by a user. I know that statement sounds like the Captain Obvious award of the century, but a lot of people don't get that. What I am getting at is sub harmonic synthesizers are usually used incorrectly.

Sub harmonic synthesizers can be very useful. I know some mastering guys that sublty use an RBass on an entire mix! It might sound retarded, but they argue that because this CD will be played on a wide variety of different sound systems. Headphones, and 2" speakers aren't known for thunderous low-end. However, using a SHS to emphasize low-end without physically increasing the "bass" in a track.

As far as getting bass out of your tracks, try cutting bass. Crazy right? Wrong! Sometimes, what can kill the low frequency content of a song, is one particular element dominating the subsonic frequencies. My kick drums, I high pass at 40Hz, and give them a little boost at 60Hz and 1kHz. Then I usually low-shelf my bassline a little bit at around 100Hz, nothing crazy.

Since low-frequencies have the most acoustic energy, having a kick drum or a bassline with uncontrolled subsonic frequencies will kill a mix, and it will keep you from increasing the volume of your kick or bassline.

Side-chaining (getting back to the topic now) is a very useful tool for helping to control the classic fight that is kick vs. bass. Tamping down on one or the other can help breathe life into a mix.

Here is a track where I am employing some of the techniques I just described:

http://www.last.fm/music/Wrzonance/_/Milkshakes

It isn't complete yet, and it's a rough mix (this is about an hour's worth of work).

I've high passed the kick drum, and low passed, low shelved the bassline. The kick also lightly compressed the bassline every time it hits. I haven't used any sub harmonic synthesizers.

I also created this rough mix around my Alesis M1MkIIs, which are known for exaggerating low-frequencies, so ironically this mix might not kick as much on a pair of more balanced speakers.

Anyway, I know I'm rambling on here (and probably should get back to work), but buy a good book on mixing, and really try simple compression and EQ (and smarter synth programming) before you jump for a sub harmonic-synthesizer.

Great books:



The Mixing Engineer's Handbook
Modern Recording Techniques

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Thankya! I've come to the conclusion that I know I'm doing then.
Your example is pretty much what I do as well, 'cept for the splitting I include.
I just figured the OP already knew his compression & sub-audible elimination. With those in combination with awareness of what frequency components exist in your total mix, these SHS's aren't the worst thing in the world.

Word

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quote:

Here is a track where I am employing some of the techniques I just described:

Interesting wrzonance i personally find that bass and kick quit muffled and held back. Its good tight production tho.
Bass Sample
Heres a recent track i have made. Hear how different they sound. But both good i think.

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quote:

Originally posted by wrzonance I also created this rough mix around my Alesis M1MkIIs, which are known for exaggerating low-frequencies, so ironically this mix might not kick as much on a pair of more balanced speakers.

^--- read

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Originally posted by theartfulducker Interesting wrzonance i personally find that bass and kick quit muffled and held back.

Yup.

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Yeah i fully appreciate that just rough mate. I just sort of pointing out that thers a wide range of stuff that is ok.

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