quote:

Originally posted by richg101 it is phsically impossible to interlink a very tough kick and a very tough long note bassline without the use of sidechain or manual volume automation. no amount of eqing can allow as efficient interleaving of a kick and a bassline. even the best sounding tune with no sidechaining of the bass and kick would be improved significantly with the addition of sidecahining.

What? Of course it's possible. It may be impossible if you've chosen a kick and bass that sound almost exactly the same, but being "tough" doesn't mean they occupy the exact same range on the frequency spectrum, and therefore, a little EQ and ordinary compression is just fine.

I really hope you're just taking the piss, suggesting that every track can be improved with side-chained compression. I know I've never felt the need to use that gimmick, and I know for damn sure that it wouldn't be an improvement anywhere.

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quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut What? Of course it's possible. It may be impossible if you've chosen a kick and bass that sound almost exactly the same, but being "tough" doesn't mean they occupy the exact same range on the frequency spectrum, and therefore, a little EQ and ordinary compression is just fine. I really hope you're just taking the piss, suggesting that every track can be improved with side-chained compression. I know I've never felt the need to use that gimmick, and I know for damn sure that it wouldn't be an improvement anywhere.

you miss the point dude... there is no reason not to use sidechaining. it is ALOT more efficient that using an eq alone. in calling such a useful production technique a "gimmick", i have to say that you are absolutely ignorant, like the thread starter.

i will also go as far as saying that yes, almost any song will benefit from some sidechaining. you and the thread starter seem to have some kind of silly idea that "sidechaining" = benny benassi. like cyrus said, sidechaining is used in more records than you think, it's just not audible. hell, i know a recording engineer at a tier 1 label who uses sidechaining in every song he mixes, which is mostly rock records.

Last edited by echosystm on Apr-27-2008 at 01:13

Um, dude, give me a break, I've spent more time than anyone on here trying to explain that sidechaining is NOT Benny Benassi, and you know that. However, if you read Rich's post, you'll see that that was clearly the effect he was describing. He referred multiple times specifically to the bass and kick.

As for being more "efficient" than using "an EQ alone", the question is: efficient at what?

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Last edited by DigiNut on Apr-27-2008 at 02:32

again i ask for a plugin that sidechain only the freq u put into the sidehcain input. like if u put a kick into the duck-input it will only duck the freqs the wav of the kick represent. this way every sound in the song could sidechain each other in the end, just make sure everything sounds as good as possible before doing it, u will be able to rais multiple dB. tho i know now that it doestnt exists.
back to thread: i think rich here means kicks, full kicks that fully fill the freq from say 30-300hZ and the same with baseline. a sidechain here, a fast one will help alot to the air of the track. i know i should be using it more caus my tracks are very "full"

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Um, dude, give me a break

ok, sorry

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut As for being more "efficient" than using "an EQ alone", the question is: efficient at what?

why eq the entire sound when it only clashes at certain intervals? equing a bass channel means you've lost all the low end in between kick hits. if you use sidechaining, you can keep that extra low end.

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 it is phsically impossible to interlink a very tough kick and a very tough long note bassline without the use of sidechain or manual volume automation. no amount of eqing can allow as efficient interleaving of a kick and a bassline. even the best sounding tune with no sidechaining of the bass and kick would be improved significantly with the addition of sidecahining.

NOT true - what about Agnelli ahnd Nelson - Holding on nothing or Big Sky (JOC remix) among others. Adding a sidechain would pump the bass totally ruining the rolling effect.

Sidechaining is useful IF you want the level of your bass to be similar to that of your kick.

What about the trance tunes with basses in this style i.e with a hit on the beat, and there are alot:

B--B--B-B--B--B-
K---K---K---K---

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quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky NOT true - what about Agnelli ahnd Nelson - Holding on nothing or Big Sky (JOC remix) among others. Adding a sidechain would pump the bass totally ruining the rolling effect.

jesus christ man.

quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus in most tunes sidechain isn't really audible. but actually it's used in a lot of tunes to get a proper mix. it helps a lot to improve instrument seperation. it seems like everyone thinks that sidechain is the overcompression of benassis's satisfaction in reality it isn't. so i don't get your point of this thread.

quote:

Originally posted by richg101 it is phsically impossible to interlink a very tough kick and a very tough long note bassline without the use of sidechain or manual volume automation. no amount of eqing can allow as efficient interleaving of a kick and a bassline. even the best sounding tune with no sidechaining of the bass and kick would be improved significantly with the addition of sidecahining.

seriously... READ!

quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky What about the trance tunes with basses in this style i.e with a hit on the beat, and there are alot: B--B--B-B--B--B- K---K---K---K---

all the MORE reason to use sidechaining! when the bass is off beat, you could easily argue that sidechaining is not necessary as the decay of the kick probably won't touch it. when the two overlap, you're going to have no chance of keeping pressure in the bass without swamping the kick... none at all. it is not possible.

How can you set a sidechain compression not not affect the volume of a bass track at all when applied to it? Is it applied to selected freq bands?

My point is WHY do you need to maximise the volume of the bass and kick? What about all the older tunes with the bass hit on the beat, made way before PC software compressors? Less focus on loud bass / kick and still sound good.

If you going for a heavy wall of sound having the bass and kick playing at the same time will work without sidechain if you choose your sounds correctly. I'm thinking as an example Marco V - Simulated, true there is compromise of overall volume but it depends on the sound you want.

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Last edited by flutlicht junky on Apr-27-2008 at 12:27

you still don't get it

quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky How can you set a sidechain compression not not affect the volume of a bass track at all when applied to it? Is it applied to selected freq bands?

if you set the right thresh, attack, release, etc. the effect can be almost unnoticeable. you need to remember that sub frequencies all pretty much sound the same... so ducking it out can be completely transparent, yet you've magically stopped the clashes.

quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky My point is WHY do you need to maximise the volume of the bass and kick?

this is dance music and bass is important.
even if you don't intend on maximising the volume of the bass, sidechaining is effective at cutting out higher frequency clashes too.

quote:

Originally posted by flutlicht junky What about all the older tunes with the bass hit on the beat, made way before PC software compressors? Less focus on loud bass / kick and still sound good.

you assume sidechaining is something new, lol! it has been used for AGES in hardware compressors. you just think that it is new because benny benassi started abusing it a few years ago and everyone caught the bug. also, modern production standards are a lot better than even 8 years ago, heh...

i'm not going to waste anymore time on this silly thread, it is too furstrating. sidechaining is a good technique and there is absolutely no reason not to use it, so this debate is ridiculous.

quote:

Originally posted by echosystm why eq the entire sound when it only clashes at certain intervals? equing a bass channel means you've lost all the low end in between kick hits.

Because it sounds better? Chunky bass is good but I hear a lot of tracks in the clubs that are just drowned in it. If you were really losing "all" the low end then I would agree, but that's rarely the case.

In any case, you do realize that ordinary compression is quite capable of doing what you insist on using a side-chained compressor for, right?

Side-chained effects have their uses. I'm not arguing against that. It's just a little absurd to be claiming that they should always be used specifically between the kick and bass and that they will always improve the sound of a track. The reality is nothing of the sort.

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quote:

Originally posted by thecYrus you still don't get it

I'm sorry but what is your point?

I fully understand the use of sidechain compression and its various uses. My point is you don't always have to use it. It is one possible method in helping overlapping freq mesh.

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