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hardcore trancer
Mystic Mind



Registered: Jan 2002
Location: Toronto,Canada

PKC the way I see it is that US fucked up once again,the situation in Afghanistan could have been much better if the US actually had focused its millitary power there instead of Iraq.
As for weather I support the US invasion ,I agree the people were suffering back in the Taliban days,but the country still remains to be poor and many are still suffering,many of the members of the current government are corrupt and they were ex Talibans from back in the days,the government of Afghanistan is another puppet show made by the US,and their president as we all know was a ex member of a oil company. I truly do feel bad for these people,it seems like they are being ingnored.


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Old Post May-17-2008 18:45 
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Krypton
83.798 g/6.022x10^23



Registered: Nov 2003
Location: Texas

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
PKC the way I see it is that US fucked up once again,the situation in Afghanistan could have been much better if the US actually had focused its millitary power there instead of Iraq.
As for weather I support the US invasion ,I agree the people were suffering back in the Taliban days,but the country still remains to be poor and many are still suffering,many of the members of the current government are corrupt and they were ex Talibans from back in the days,the government of Afghanistan is another puppet show made by the US,and their president as we all know was a ex member of a oil company. I truly do feel bad for these people,it seems like they are being ingnored.


I've seen a plan to have an oil pipeline built out from Tajikastan or Uzbekistan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the India ocean. This route avoids China, Russia, and Iran.


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Old Post May-17-2008 21:52  Korea-Democratic Peoples Republic
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Krypton
I've seen a plan to have an oil pipeline built out from Tajikastan or Uzbekistan, through Afghanistan and Pakistan, to the India ocean. This route avoids China, Russia, and Iran.


Yes indeed. Wait a minute - I am almost certain that it was a natural gas pipeline, but I could be wrong.

Old Post May-17-2008 23:24  Canada
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
in case anyone is forgetting, the taliban were providing refuge to an army that declared war on the united states. the US has every right to be there.

this is a country that banned sport and destroyed priceless historical monuments in the name of religion. who subjected women to the most oppressive measures.

im not quite sure why everyone thinks the country should be sweet and peachy inside 5 minutes. there are obviously issues. NATO need to pay more attention and treat this like a war instead of a peace-keeping mission.

but you go on enjoying the liberal opportunities protected for you by the evil government you constantly rail against. im sure afghanistan would have been liberalising any day now, under its own steam. little girls going to school within 5 years for sure!



see, kalashnikov understands more than you two put together. this is the question, not your irrelevant bollocks. i really respect both of you guys and enjoy reading your posts, but fuck you both piss me off sometimes. and im sure the feeling is mutual


Often enough American military interference around the world backfires in really bad ways - for example, current Iranian leadership which came to power solely because of the evil American-instated Shah regime. Why overthrow Mossadeq ...

And even Afghanistan. The reason why its so badly messed up today is because of continuing military occupation and interference. Its not near peace ... same with Iraq - it exploded after Americans extended their occupation, and the violence seems to be going in the Afghan direction. Just think about it.

Old Post May-17-2008 23:30  Canada
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada



Things are getting better in Afghanistan by the minute. Can EvilTree once and for all defend the Canadian mission in that country and at the same time say positive results are happening in Afghanistan? Because now it seems like all the prisoners Canadian troops have captured have escaped ...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...0,1433939.story

quote:

Taliban attack on Kandahar prison frees 1,000

Afghanistan officials say those who fled after a bomb blew open the gate include criminals as well as about 380 Taliban insurgents.
By M. Karim Faiez and Henry Chu, Special to The Times
June 14, 2008
KABUL, AFGHANISTAN -- Taliban insurgents mounted a well-coordinated attack Friday on a southern Afghan prison, allowing more than 1,000 prisoners, including hundreds of militants, to escape, authorities said.

A huge truck bomb blew open the front gate of the prison about 9 p.m. in Kandahar, the spiritual cradle of the Taliban movement. A suicide bomber also struck the back of the facility, the Associated Press reported.

Attackers then streamed into the prison and battled police for about 30 minutes, resulting in the deaths of some inmates and guards, according to news agencies and a police officer in Kandahar who was reached by telephone. The militants also fired rockets at the prison, streaking the nighttime sky with light.

Among the more than 1,000 prisoners who escaped were common criminals as well as about 380 Taliban insurgents, said Wali Karzai, president of Kandahar's provincial council.

This morning, the prison was surrounded by police.

Militants being held at the prison included both rank-and-file fighters and commanders, whose escape may aggravate the difficulty North Atlantic Treaty Organization and Afghan forces have had in securing the insurgency-ridden south and east of the country.

"There is no one left," Karzai said after the jailbreak.

Karzai is a brother of Afghan President Hamid Karzai, who was in Paris this week seeking to collect more than $20 billion in pledged aid from donor nations. He was supported in his efforts by First Lady Laura Bush, who declared that Afghanistan had "reached a decisive moment" in its history, 6 1/2 years after U.S.-led forces ousted the Taliban from power.

The country is facing an emboldened insurgency, growing unrest over rising food prices, endemic corruption and public anger that billions of dollars in foreign aid have brought little improvement to the lives of many Afghans.

For the 60,000 foreign troops deployed here, life has also become more dangerous because of roadside bombs and suicide attacks.

The dramatic prison assault was the latest in a string of high-profile insurgent attacks that show the Taliban is capable of meticulously planned operations as well as quick-hit tactics.

In January, a group of militants blasted its way past heavy security at Afghanistan's only luxury hotel, killing several people.

In April, insurgents managed to mount an assassination attempt on the president at a public parade in Kabul, smuggling weapons into a building near the parade ground despite days of heightened security throughout the capital. Karzai was hustled away, as were other dignitaries at the event, including the U.S. and British ambassadors.

The mass prisoner escape is a blow to Afghanistan's fledgling police force, which since last year had begun assuming responsibility for more captured Taliban militants under an agreement to take them out of the custody of foreign forces.

Last month, about 200 Taliban suspects at the Kandahar prison ended a weeklong hunger strike after meeting a parliamentary delegation that promised to review the cases.


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Old Post Jun-16-2008 10:54  Canada
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Fir3start3r
Armin Acolyte



Registered: Oct 2001
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium


Things are getting better in Afghanistan by the minute. Can EvilTree once and for all defend the Canadian mission in that country and at the same time say positive results are happening in Afghanistan? Because now it seems like all the prisoners Canadian troops have captured have escaped ...

http://www.latimes.com/news/printed...0,1433939.story



Before you blame the Canadians for this, lets remember that these prisoners were under the watch of the Afghani police and NOT the Canadians...


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Old Post Jun-16-2008 14:00  Canada
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Kinezi
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2008
Location: Location

quote:
Originally posted by hardcore trancer
Taliban still remains in Afghanistan,and they are regrouping as we speak.


Correct!

quote:


Taliban seize Afghan villages

Taliban fighters have taken control of eight villages in Arghandab district in Afghanistan, and have said they plan to march towards Kandahar city.

About 500 fighters are said to be involved in the ongoing Taliban offensive, which got under way on Monday, Al Jazeera has learnt.

Arghandab district lies 30km north of Kandahar city.

Afghan and US-led forces in Afghanistan are said to be preparing to repulse the offensive.

Al Jazeera's Hashem Ahelbarra, reporting from Kandahar, said that hundreds of Taliban fighters are taking up positions in the area and taking over nearby villages.

"Sources from the Afghan army say that unless they get support from the Afghan national and international coalition forces, they won't be able to launch any counterattack," he said.

"If Arghandab is taken over by the Taliban, it will mean a significant shift in power, and people are concerned that this will be a step forward for the Taliban towards Kandahar."



Old Post Jun-16-2008 14:58  United States
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by Fir3start3r
Before you blame the Canadians for this, lets remember that these prisoners were under the watch of the Afghani police and NOT the Canadians...


Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Hold it there. I am in no way blaming the Canadians, dont you try to offend me there, big guy. I love Canada. I just think that our Canadian boys are dying for absolutely NOTHING. Its time for this to end. The recent Afghan jail daring attack easily wiped out any recent Canadian progress in Kandahar. Plus, it happened right under their noses! Maaaan, I almost feel insulted and sort of pissed. We are back at ground zero and Taliban are now attacking Kandahar positions as we speak.
---
Seriously, man, what good has the Canadian mission been to Afghanistan anyway? I guess we should look at the rising opium exports from Afghanistan as a positive sign!


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Old Post Jun-18-2008 23:02  Canada
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium

I just think that our Canadian boys are dying for absolutely NOTHING.


self-determination for women is "nothing" ??


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Old Post Jun-18-2008 23:05  Australia
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
self-determination for women is "nothing" ??


And how many Afghan women you think have this "self-determination" that you're talking about?

They are only self-determining at the expense of Canadian and international troops getting killed every month, protecting puppet regime. There's no peace and stability in Afghanistan and any democratic developments in there right now are only temporary. Soviets thought too that they were doing well in early 1980s.

Besides, abuse of women in Afghanistan is still rampant. Whats worse, is that young women, 13 and under, are still given away to arranged marriages to old men. Schools are continuously demolished. Its not just the Taliban, but the religious Muslims who feel threatened. Self-determined women are far few in Afghanistan. There was a very good article on that last month but I dont recall where I read it.

EDIT: It will be much cheaper and more effective to instead just allow such self-determined women to immigrate to Canada to pursue happy lives. In Afghanistan they might never achieve it in their Taliban-invested and religious war-torn environment. Yeah, like some Afghan warlord is going to let a woman be in charge of something other than house chores.


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Old Post Jun-18-2008 23:56  Canada
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pkcRAISTLIN
arbiter's chief minion



Registered: Jul 2002
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
And how many Afghan women you think have this "self-determination" that you're talking about?


more than during the reign of the taliban.

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
They are only self-determining at the expense of Canadian and international troops getting killed every month, protecting puppet regime. There's no peace and stability in Afghanistan and any democratic developments in there right now are only temporary. Soviets thought too that they were doing well in early 1980s.


that's the price that is paid by those that serve something greater than themselves. there is no conscription, these people are professional soldiers and this is what they signed up for. mourning their loss by insulting their legacy doesn't seem right to me.

quote:
Originally posted by Magnetonium
Besides, abuse of women in Afghanistan is still rampant. Whats worse, is that young women, 13 and under, are still given away to arranged marriages to old men. Schools are continuously demolished. Its not just the Taliban, but the religious Muslims who feel threatened. Self-determined women are far few in Afghanistan. There was a very good article on that last month but I dont recall where I read it.


i didn't say that it was perfect. and of course ancient barriers havent been broken in a matter of a few years; but women can now work and go to school, 2 measurements of self determination in my book. and school are also constantly being built, so its a matter of winning the hearts and minds, and protecting those they have won over.

i think its rather unrealistic to expect afghanis to embrace western democracy immediately. these things take take and i think they are something worth fighting for.


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Old Post Jun-19-2008 00:02  Australia
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Magnetonium
Dubstep = Douchestep



Registered: Sep 2001
Location: Port Burwell, Ontario, Canada

quote:
Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN
more than during the reign of the taliban.




Indeed. I would imagine with the number of our troops in there, it would be the case, common sense, logical. And removing those international troops would undo everything quickly ...

I mean, in the 1980s Soviets were able to find many communists in Afghanistan ... well, as long as their military presence was there.

But then, burdened by the cost of the war, the casualties, domestic issues, it all collapsed very quickly. And all the communists just disappeared like a fart in the wind.

quote:

that's the price that is paid by those that serve something greater than themselves. there is no conscription, these people are professional soldiers and this is what they signed up for. mourning their loss by insulting their legacy doesn't seem right to me.


I think most Canadian troops would prefer serving in Bosnia rather than in Afghanistan. Its not the greatest and most desirable place to go. Besides, when Americans signed up for the army, I doubt all of them wanted to go to Iraq.

quote:

i didn't say that it was perfect. and of course ancient barriers havent been broken in a matter of a few years; but women can now work and go to school, 2 measurements of self determination in my book. and school are also constantly being built, so its a matter of winning the hearts and minds, and protecting those they have won over.

i think its rather unrealistic to expect afghanis to embrace western democracy immediately. these things take take and i think they are something worth fighting for.


I understand what you're saying, and its true that things are faaaaaaaaaaaar from perfect down there. But there's little progress. In fact, now its the reverse effect - Taliban is stronger and gains are quickly getting lost. At this pace, and with current system, there might never be progress or stability in Afghanistan. Taliban, religious groups, opium growers, power-thirsy warlords, old quarrels, criminals ... all these and other factors are going to be the thorn in Karzai's side many years to come.

This is not the Canadian fight. We didnt start the war, and we certainly arent the cannon fodder for the American foreign policy. We got some peace keeping to do in places that really need us. Afghanistan is not ready for the renowned Canadian peacekeepers. When it will be, I'm sure Canadian forces will be more than happy to help, but until then we don't need to waste our troops and money.


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Whenever you go and buy something, you are affecting someone somewhere, be it environment, a person, or a community - you're making a statement with what you buy. So make it a smart choice ... Its a big picture

Old Post Jun-19-2008 00:17  Canada
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