quote:

Originally posted by Krypton Ok, then expect more terrorism, more danger to Americans, more hate to proliferate throughout the world. Congrats...

Oh yeah, the bay of pigs in the 1960s was just so much better. Cuba falling under the Soviet influence didn't threaten our way of life at all, right?


Krypton's expecting me to give him these long drawn out answers. There's really no need. Be concise and to the point rather then trying to comment on every other word I type.

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Originally posted by CHRles Krypton is being a hypocrite. We all are in some way, but he's blind to his hypocrisy. Furthermore, I completely back the CIA's operations in the 1950s. I love it when people look back on actions TODAY and don't look at what was happening back in the 50s. The facts were that the US saw a growing problem with Communism, and if the US and UK didnt step in and kill that worthless spine some Iranians love so dearly (yet were born long after his death) then Iran could have fallen over to Soviet influence. The real problem was in the 70s - Carter didn't do enough to help the Shah. Iran wasn't ready for a democracy - 1970s Iran can't be compared to the French or American revolution. A bunch of radical religious leaders gained office, not Iran's intellectual class.

Funny how you say how "some Iranians love so dearly (yet were born long after his death)" and then that was following "I completely back the CIA's operations in the 1950s", yet you weren't even around then were you?

hypocrisy is best serves with a pinch of CHRles.

The CIA is still around today - what's your point?

You criticized Iranians today supporting the Iranian leaders action back then even though they weren't born yet. But you support the CIAs action to remove him.. even though you weren't born then either.

This is known as propaganda.

The same goes for the other side of the situation, of course. If it is ever so... blatant.

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Originally posted by CHRles Oh yeah, the bay of pigs in the 1960s was just so much better. Cuba falling under the Soviet influence didn't threaten our way of life at all, right?

You are the king of comparing apples to oranges. Where does Cuba fit in our debate over Iran? Is Iran 90 miles off our coast with nuclear capable missiles pointing at us? I don't understand. What the fuck are you talking about? Just more irrelevant crap to support a baseless world view...

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Krypton's expecting me to give him these long drawn out answers. There's really no need. Be concise and to the point rather then trying to comment on every other word I type.

Is this your answer when I call out your bullshit...You are making this WAY way too easy...

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Originally posted by Krypton That's not what I'm doing. Both countries, as I said, are acting in their own selfish interest. Iran AND the US. No one holds the high moral ground, which CHRles loves to go down that road.

fair enough.

i should have been clearer; i meant in general. Of anyone on this board, you make the most harsh comments against the US and the actions of the government, yet, if i remember correctly, you have justified aggressive acts of so-called rouge nations against the US on the basis that the US has conducted similar acts in the past.

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Originally posted by jerZ07002 fair enough. i should have been clearer; i meant in general. Of anyone on this board, you make the most harsh comments against the US and the actions of the government, yet, if i remember correctly, you have justified aggressive acts of so-called rouge nations against the US on the basis that the US has conducted similar acts in the past.

How I wish more Americans like Krypton would have the balls to stand up agaisnt their government and speak up with no fears.

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quote:

Originally posted by jerZ07002 fair enough. i should have been clearer; i meant in general. Of anyone on this board, you make the most harsh comments against the US and the actions of the government, yet, if i remember correctly, you have justified aggressive acts of so-called rouge nations against the US on the basis that the US has conducted similar acts in the past.

Well, we can't blame anybody but ourselves for the situation which we find ourselves in. I can bomb on Iran all day, but I don't have any say on what goes on in Iran (even though war hawks think they can). I can however change how our government represents the American people abroad. So I do place higher emphasis on what we do.

Another thing that pisses me off is comparing Iran to Nazi Germany. If anyone uses this the Ad Hitlerum fallacy, I discredit them immediately. Germany was and still is one of the most advanced industrialized countries in the world. They could logistically/technologically dominate all of Europe. The Iranians on the other hardly possess the material, technology, strategy to be invading countries like Hitler did. It's an irrelevant argument and is a reflection of one's lack of historical context.

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Originally posted by Krypton Well, we can't blame anybody but ourselves for the situation which we find ourselves in. I can bomb on Iran all day, but I don't have any say on what goes on in Iran (even though war hawks think they can). I can however change how our government represents the American people abroad. So I do place higher emphasis on what we do. Another thing that pisses me off is comparing Iran to Nazi Germany. If anyone uses this the Ad Hitlerum fallacy, I discredit them immediately. Germany was and still is one of the most advanced industrialized countries in the world. They could logistically/technologically dominate all of Europe. The Iranians on the other hardly possess the material, technology, strategy to be invading countries like Hitler did. It's an irrelevant argument and is a reflection of one's lack of historical context.

i love how you go off on tangents (who said anything about hitler?). it's cool though.

i don't try to justify actions of our government. however, i try to see it from both sides without any emotion. i can't blame iranians for looking out for their own interests. however, you should be consistent on your principals. if you are anti-anything be consistent with that position. if you believe the US should not interfere with iraqi internal politics, don't try and justify iranian interference with iraqi internal politics. you should be equally against that proposition. one fact that is lost, in this horrible war where civilians do die, americans are spending a shit ton of money to attempt to fix iraq. do you honestly believe iran would be spending money to help iraqis if their goal was to weaken the country? people forget that america tries to repair what it breaks (i.e., japan and Germany). which other countries do that?

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer How I wish more Americans like Krypton would have the balls to stand up agaisnt their government and speak up with no fears.

it's not about speaking against a government. it's about being consistent with principals.

as far as speaking out against our government, the american people are clearly doing so now. furthermore, americans on the left and right side of the country have been speaking out against bush since day one. personally, i have never supported bush or the iraq war. i'm not an active voice against bush, however, that doesn't mean i am less of an opponent of bush or his war. the loudest voice isn't always the most effective.

Last edited by jerZ07002 on May-22-2008 at 05:05

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer How I wish more Americans like Krypton would have the balls to stand up agaisnt their government and speak up with no fears.

Shawty said the nigga that she wit ain't shhh, shawty said the nigga that she with ain't this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8cKDygsfPNo

Homie, your responses are ghetto and weak. Nobody in America is afraid to speak their mind - can't say the same for Iran.

I can't believe Krypton doesn't understand how just b/c Iran isn't located 90 mins from us like Cuba, it was still a huge threat. Iran goes Communist, and that could make it easier to turn other countries in that region in that direction.

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Originally posted by CHRles Nobody in America is afraid to speak their mind - can't say the same for Iran.

i totally agree with that statement.

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Originally posted by CHRles I can't believe Krypton doesn't understand how just b/c Iran isn't located 90 mins from us like Cuba, it was still a huge threat. Iran goes Communist, and that could make it easier to turn other countries in that direction.

how is communism a threat to the US today? communism was only a threat because people have ideals they believe need to be spread. in and of itself, communism is not a threat to the US. it's a ridiculous notion to say it is. if anything, communism was only a threat to the people who would have to live under its rule (and that was only because it wasn't truly communism, but rather fascist totalitarianism). the spread of communism was really a front for saying the spread of enemy influence. if iran was to become a communist today, so what? it's not the spread of soviet influence.