quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You must not understand the concept of critical thinking.

haha, you mean the constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them = critical thinking?? i must first consider the highly unlikely theory devoid of evidence before looking at what the facts point at?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Can you give me a good reason to not be skeptical of lying and murderous instituions?

give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z # The amount of evidence required to file a law suit will generally not be found, and for good reason. It will be eigther destroyed or classified.

in other words the absence of evidence is, um, actually evidence of evil government puppet masters?

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, you mean the constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them = critical thinking?? i must first consider the highly unlikely theory devoid of evidence before looking at what the facts point at?

I gave you "evidence" or reasons rather as to why I'm skeptical... if you choose to ignore or obfuscate it... oh well, that's just too bad then. Part of critical thinking is not restricting yourself to any paradigms, suspending biases and assumptions (especially ones that directly contradict the lessons of history), and avoiding limitations any framework (wheather real or conttrived) imposes on thought. So it's illogical or irrational of me to be skeptical of claims coming from instituions and / or organizations that have a track record of lack of transparency, deception, coersion of domestic populations, unprovoked military agression, and false flag terrorism? I think their lack of credibility has ample historical evidence and reason to back it up.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

Read above. The lesson of history are not my gut instinct. There's a word of a difference between accusations and suspecion. Oddly enough, expressing that predictabley generates a juvenile reponse from you. Q was actually trying to have a discussion with me, as opposed to you who trolls "anti-establishment" positions everywhere. It's really beggining to get old... and it doesn't exactly boost your credibility eigther.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN in other words the absence of evidence is, um, actually evidence of evil government puppet masters?

No, but feel free to twist my words.

There, I answered all your questions. Oddly enough you didn't address a thing I said or answer any of my questions. Obfuscating the points I made by failing to address them and twist the rest ridiculously out of context to me sounds like that special list of "ten commandments" you have is infact your bible . Try addressing what I say for once, the entire argument preferably if you wish to point out flaws in it or my reasoning. Not selective tid bits you can misrepresent.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

BTW, I'm intersted if you can back up your points btw:

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, you mean the constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them = critical thinking?? i must first consider the highly unlikely theory devoid of evidence before looking at what the facts point at?

Make a list of different perspectives I have on various issues and then please show me how much of it falls in the category of "constant attraction to ideas that have no evidence to support them." And for God's sake, learn how to differentiate between evidence and proof. You say you've studied logic formally in college, you must have been a terrible at it as you don't know the difference between the two terms.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

LOL, I just reread the portion of my post you were responding to. LOL, thanks... I haven't laughed that hard in a while:

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Can you give me a good reason to not be skeptical of lying and murderous instituions?

To which your response was:

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN give me a good reason to suspect MI5 in this case. your gut instinct isnt enough for me im afraid.

You acknowledged how these instituions have historically operated, yet that's not reason enough to suspect them of displaying similar behaviour? LOL, alright. I guess next time you know someone's a rapist and murderer, you should be comfortable with them taking your friend on a date.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You acknowledged how these instituions have historically operated, yet that's not reason enough to suspect them of displaying similar behaviour? LOL, alright. I guess next time you know someone's a rapist and murderer, you should be comfortable with them taking your friend on a date.

and we are aware of the "loose Screw" mentality that islamists possesses as well.
What is more likely Z. a Muslim blowing him/herself up or the government with all of its loose lips just doing it to keep control of people that ONLY you say is their goal??

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX and we are aware of the "loose Screw" mentality that islamists possesses as well.

Interesting, I don't remember that being specfic to any one brand of religious fanatics. Last time I checked, the evil, violent and descructive influence of organized religion was dwarfed by the state in conjuction with intelligence agencies.

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX What is more likely Z. a Muslim blowing him/herself up or the government with all of its loose lips just doing it to keep control of people that ONLY you say is their goal??

The latter. Althought the former is also possible, but not very likely.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z The latter.

in the UK? maybe, but why do you think thats not so in predominantly Muslim countries?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo in the UK? maybe, but why do you think thats not so in predominantly Muslim countries?

Predominantly Muslim countires are not an exception. Just take a look at Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. Plus, most of them already live in western backed or created tyrannies. There's not much need to push in new legislation, not to mention in most third world nations the law being ignored or violated isn't exactly a anamoly. You have no civil liberties there, unless you belong to the an elite upper class... which also generally means you're not subject to legal action being taken against you, provided you don't step out of line. Over there though, it's genreally one political faction using it to take down another.

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Interesting, I don't remember that being specfic to any one brand of religious fanatics. Last time I checked, the evil, violent and descructive influence of organized religion was dwarfed by the state in conjuction with intelligence agencies.

true and you are correct, there has been instances??
but why is it that the same fever is not used when addressing the ETA or the IRA? If it has some sort of islamic undertone, its always the government..

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I don't know, maybe to propagate more baseless fear of a particular demographic group

White people? Seems like a pretty poor choice of perpetrator.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov White people? Seems like a pretty poor choice of perpetrator.

No, more like desert dweller and anyone coverting to their desert tales. Are you being serious or just taking the piss?

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, more like desert dweller and anyone coverting to their desert tales. Are you being serious or just taking the piss?

You really think that if MI5 wanted to foster fear of Arab Muslims, they'd choose a white guy from Britain to carry out a failed bombing?

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