It say nothing on there about Club PAs not producing sound under 50 hzt thats rubbish.

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For rolling bass lines I cut a good deal of the lower frequencies out and add a sub bass from another synth on a slight side chain around the kick.
For something like a K-B-K-B-K-B-K-B line I'll only cut the really low frequencies so I get a nice pulsating sound. So yeh it depends.

quote:

Originally posted by theartfulducker It say nothing on there about Club PAs not producing sound under 50 hzt thats rubbish.

That's true, however, it says the following:
Also we must keep in mind that 50Hz is a very "boomy" frequency that will make many speakers distort and ruin the rest of the track. While 50Hz sounds great on my Mackie 824's, I can guarantee you it does not so so tight on other speakers..

I actually know for a fact (read it on Sound on Sound, don't know which issue) that you should avoid going below 50Hz, because most club systems can't handle that.

If I find the issue, I'll let you know ...

But why do you think otherwise?

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Full range systems should go down to 20 Hz just fine. If you analyse most trance tracks, there is still a decent amount of content below 50 Hz. These frequencies aren't really audible, but listeners can definitely feel them, especially at loud volumes.

It's generally not a big deal (I think?) to filter out some of the sub bass frequencies, since there is a wide range, in terms of sub bass levels, in trance tracks. As long as the filter slope one uses isn't extreme it won't eliminate these frequencies completely (getting rid of them completely may definitely make your track stand out for the wrong reason). Eliminating them completely is also unnecessary. Well-built speakers won't attempt to reproduce frequencies they aren't able to reproduce.

As for the original question - think about how you want the kick and sub bass to interact. Do you want them both to have long decays? If you're happy for the kick to have a short decay, why not choose a sample with a short decay, or use e.g. an envelope shaper to shorten the decay of the sample you've chosen? For some people, it's okay that the kick sounds different when the bass is added. For others, they want the kick consistent throughout. There's no right or wrong, it's an artistic decision. Decide how you want it to sound, then find ways to make that happen. A lot of sub basses operate below the kick. 80 to 100Hz I wouldn't classify as sub bass, since those frequencies can definitely be heard at least as much as they are felt.

Yeah a big sub will make sound lower than 20 hz, you wont hear it as such but you'l sure feel it. Humans can usually hear down to about 20hz. Its is correct to low cut your stuff but I personally think 50hz would start to take away from your sound. Sub is nice. I low cut these days at 30hz. Cut at 20 - 25 hz is fine.

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i also suggest with the side chain type effect, instead of ducking the volume of the bass, try just ducking a kinda narrow frequency range (ie the predominant frequency that the kick lives in). this way you get to keep the texture of the bass without having crazy spikes in that particular frequency range..

uhhh... 50hz is a bit high...

i'd suggest rolling off the very bottom end though (i roll off the master at 20ish hz) but i roll off higher on my individual mixer channels... i use my ears, not some doccument, to decide where to roll off

david

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quote:

Originally posted by davidbuhau i use my ears, not some doccument, to decide where to roll off

Well.. Not me! I make a textbook trance-track eevery time .

You know David, lot's of times I already heard you say, I use my ears, not some document.
You know what, sometimes I use documents or visual tools because sometimes minor differences can't always be percieved by the ear. If that was so, why do they have spectral analyzers, it's just a visual tool.
And most of my knowledge of audio production, comes from documents, how did you learn than?
I'm sure that you can't tell me, if I play you a sound, in exactly what frequence-range it is.

And about the 50Hz, I admit that's its a little high to cut off, but I am sure I read that in a book somewhere, but I could misread it, or the author was wrong. However, I will cut down from 20-30Hz in the next track, to see how that works.

Owyeah, I hope you solved the kick + bass problem you had!

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