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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles To sum up -- if pro-lifers believe the following things: (1) Abortion is the murder of a human being who deserves just as much protection as any adult. (2) Murderers ought to be stopped from murdering as quickly as possible, even if that means using deadly force. (3) If legal authorities refuse to stop a murderer from killing or refuse to recognize his killings as "murder," then private citizens ought to take matters into their own hands and stop him. Then the most logical conclusion is this: (C) Since the proper authorities will not act to stop the murder of the unborn, private citizens ought to take matters into their own hands and stop it, even if that means killing the murderers (abortion doctors). In other words, the fact that most pro-lifers aren't out there gunning down abortionists means that either (a) they don't really believe that abortion is morally equivalent to murder or (b) they're too cowardly to try and stop what they view as the "murder" of the unborn using the most immediately effective method.

Or that you've got most pro-lifers completely wrong. Most are Christian, and most Christians (at least the orthodox kind), will not murder for their beliefs. It goes against the teachings of Jesus. I would think everyone believes that any murderer should be stopped. But most Christians would not say are for terrorist acts against abortion clinics. Fundamentalist/radical Christians of course are a different matter. But what religion doesn't have their radicals?

John McCain is a pro-lifer, you don't see him going around saying abortion clinics are death camps for the unborn.

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Great reasoning, except for the slippery slope that led your conclusions astray

If you're against murder, the use of lethal force against a killer defeats the whole purpose of acting upon any kind of wrong doing. Think about it: if you feel you must kill a slaughterer in order to stop a subsequent death, you might as well go on commit suicide, as you're going to become a killer yourself... and, if you feel suicide is wrong (as most pro-lifers feel), can anything be done according to your way of thinking? Clearly not, because it would entail from the premises that one ought to kill oneself in order to prevent one's own suicide.

The reason why you don't see pro-lifers running amok and bombing more abortion clinics is because they grant the right to life to human being in general - including, somewhat paradoxically, killers. The rationale behind this decision is simple: if a human being can reason, and this intellectual capacity can lead to a change in one's behaviour, you'd be more just to attack the beliefs rather than the believer.

Naturally, it's not really as effective as it should be (otherwise there would be no discussion regarding abotion at all), but killing factual human beings is indeed a lot more problematic than killing potential human beings (i.e. unborn foetuses).

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Originally posted by Krypton It goes against the teachings of Jesus.

Don't take this as a direct criticism, Kryp, as I don't know whether this is really your stance, but if a person refrains from killing solely because of an authority figure... well, I genuinely fear for their ability of making sound decisions.

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Originally posted by donegalredneck A lot of pro-life people would probably be opposed to killing a murderer. And believe that human life - regardless of how much of a scumbag the human is - should be protected at all costs. There are others who feel differently and who would have no qualms about seeing an abortion "doctor" killed. It has been known to happen, although the people who would support such action would greatly outnumber those prepared to carry it out.

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AustralianGQ

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Originally posted by SuspicionVandit because they are the heroes that Gotham deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hunt them, because they can take it. Because they are not heroes. They are the silent guardians, the watchful protectors, the dark knights.

I fucking love you.

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Originally posted by Lira Don't take this as a direct criticism, Kryp, as I don't know whether this is really your stance, but if a person refrains from killing solely because of an authority figure... well, I genuinely fear for their ability of making sound decisions.

Christians are sworn to obey the teachings of Jesus. His philosophy was that of non-violence. I would say he was the first hippie!

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i read alot about jesus in this thread. so, consider this, a friendly hi-jack.

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Originally posted by hooknife Fuck pro-lifers. Its not your choice, its mine.

Strictly speaking, unless you're your own mother, the choice isn't yours either.

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Originally posted by hooknife Keep your religious views out of my life you fucking freaks!

Keep your religious views out of anyone's life you, well... I'm not the kind of person that would insult someone else simply because I disagree with them but, it seems you're fine with it, so I hope you don't mind me calling you a fucking freak, you fucking freak

I fail to understand why this should have anything to do with religion, by the way. Can't agnostics oppose abortion or something? If so, please tell me, because I'd have to review all my beliefs then.

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Originally posted by Krypton Christians are sworn to obey the teachings of Jesus. His philosophy was that of non-violence. I would say he was the first hippie!

But, should you, as a Christian, really abide by Jesus' teachings uncritically, just because you read (or heard) that He said so?

Unless you met Christ and whatnot, I don't think that's a good idea. At all.

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Jingles, you really need to go and start your own website and forum for this kind of thing.

My suggestions:

intelligentyetannoyingtopics.com

subjectswhicharebetterdiscussedinperson.com

philosophyaddict.com

mrjivebojingles.com

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Originally posted by elFreak jesus christ man...i bet no one invites you to dinner parties

this belongs in his sig.

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Originally posted by Lira But, should you, as a Christian, really abide by Jesus' teachings uncritically, just because you read (or heard) that He said so? Unless you met Christ and whatnot, I don't think that's a good idea. At all.

See, you would think that, but this is what a Christian would believe..

1 --> John 3:16 --> For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Jesus is God.

2 --> 2 Timothy 3:16 --> All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correction and training in righteousness.

The Bible is the Word of God. Therefore, everything in the Bible comes from God.

Lira, what you have to understand is, monotheists believe in absolutes. There is no compromise. The point of view you're thinking from is that of moral relativism. So now, can you understand the uncompromising position of most pro-lifers?

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Originally posted by Lira Great reasoning, except for the slippery slope that led your conclusions astray If you're against murder, the use of lethal force against a killer defeats the whole purpose of acting upon any kind of wrong doing.

Okay, then why not use any force short of lethal force to stop him?

Cut off his hands or something and prevent him from doing any more abortions, right?