quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover I do care about our soldiers and for the citizens of Iraq.

No you don't. If you did you would have spoken up years ago when it was clear to everyone but the criminally stupid that this administration's polices were failing and was a failure for YEARS at the expense of our soldier's lives, taxpayer money, and Iraqi civilians lives.

It's sadly pathetic to see you "conservatives" suddenly cling to the successes of the surge strategy as if was never a strategy that originated from the "liberal" (which includes McCain) camp to begin with back in 2003 or 2004. God forbid you guys develop the testiculure fortitude to demand results from a commander in chief on your own without the necessary politicized cliffnotes from your party .

What's even sadder is that your lauded Bush administration STILL has no strategy. Yay the surge has reduced violence! Way to embrace a strategy advocated back in 2003/2004. What's next??? Good night you princes of Maine, you kings of New England. You're still a bunch of children ...

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Last edited by occrider on Jul-29-2008 at 05:37

winning eh?

quote:

http://www.cbc.ca/cp/world/080728/w0728118A.html Female suicide attackers strike in Iraq; 57 killed at two separate gatherings BAGHDAD - Suicide bombers, including at least three women, struck Shiite pilgrims in Baghdad and Kurdish protesters in the northern city of Kirkuk on Monday, killing at least 57 people, a brutal reminder that mass gatherings remain vulnerable despite vast improvements in security. The attacks came even though the United States has stepped up efforts to recruit and train women for Iraq's police force and enlist them to join Sunnis fighting al-Qaida. Insurgents increasingly use female bombers because their billowing, black robes easily hide explosives and they are less likely to be searched. U.S. military figures show at least 27 female suicide bombings this year, compared with eight in 2007. Monday's attacks tapped into two different sets of fears. The three nearly simultaneous bombings in Baghdad undermined public confidence in recent security gains that have tamped down sectarian bloodshed. The attack in Kirkuk, 290 kilometres to the north, showed that ethnic rivalries can turn into mass slaughter in a city that is home to Kurds, Turkomen, Arabs and other minorities. The U.S. military blamed "al-Qaida in Iraq" for the Baghdad bombings. It was still investigating the Kirkuk attack, underscoring the more complicated nature of the tensions there. But city police spokesman Brig.-Gen. Sarhat Qadir said the terror network was behind that attack as well. The Baghdad bombings left piles of rubble and shattered glass on the streets alongside crumpled cars and sandals from panicked pilgrims, many of whom had slept at rest areas before rising at dawn to begin their annual march to the golden domed shrine of Imam Moussa al-Kadhim. Hospital emergency rooms were overwhelmed with bloodied victims, including a young boy with a bandaged head who sucked on a pacifier as he was held by a man. "I heard women and children crying and shouting and I saw burned women as dead bodies lied in pools of blood on the street," Mustapha Abdullah, a 32-year-old man who was injured in the stomach and legs, said from his hospital bed. At least 32 people were killed and more than 100 were wounded, Iraqi police and hospital officials said. It was the deadliest attack in the capital since June 17, when a truck bombing killed 63 people in Hurriyah. In a throwback to more violent times, the Iraqi government announced a 24-hour curfew in Baghdad, banning all vehicle movement starting 5 a.m. Tuesday. The attacks in the capital began about 7:15 a.m., when three of the women detonated their explosives belts in quick succession less than a kilometre apart. The bombers were walking among pilgrims streaming toward the golden domed shrine of the eight-century imam. The shrine, the focus of a major Shiite festival this week, gives its name to the northern neighbourhood of Kazimiyah which surrounds it. Iraqi security forces had deployed about 200 women this week to search female pilgrims in Kazimiyah, but the attacks took place along the procession some 10 kilometres southeast of the shrine. There were too few women guards to search people in the procession itself. The blasts started with an explosion near the National Theatre in the central Shiite neighbourhood of Karradah, followed by a bombing near a refreshment tent set up for the pilgrims and another between two traffic checkpoints. Shiites en route to Kazimiyah have been attacked in past years by gunmen in Sunni areas south of Baghdad. No major bombings have struck the pilgrimage, although at least 1,000 pilgrims were killed in a Baghdad bridge stampede caused by rumours of a suicide bomber in 2005. Since the 2003 ouster of Saddam Hussein, who was a Sunni, Shiite political parties have encouraged huge turnouts at religious festivals to display the majority sect's power in Iraq. Sunni religious extremists have often targeted the gatherings to foment sectarian war, but that has not stopped the Shiites. Even so, Iraqi authorities had been hopeful they could maintain calm this year as the overall levels of attacks have dropped to their lowest point in more than four years. At least 478 Iraqi civilians have been killed in violence so far this month, representing a 76 per cent decline when compared with July 2007, when the death toll was 2,021, according to an Associated Press count. The bombings, however, showed the fragility of the gains as insurgents maintain the ability to wage high-profile attacks that inflict a heavy casualty toll. They come ahead of planned U.S.-Iraqi operations aimed at routing insurgents from Diyala province as well as rural hideouts elsewhere in northern Iraq. Lt. Col. Steve Stover, a spokesman for U.S. forces in Baghdad, blamed "al-Qaida in Iraq" for the attacks in the capital and confirmed the bombers were all women, including a teenager. "As we have previously stated, AQI is not defeated. They are evil and responsible for the most heinous attacks against unarmed, non-combatant civilians," he said. The attack in Kirkuk killed at least 25 people and wounded 185, the police spokesman said. The suicide bomber struck shortly after 11 a.m. as Kurdish protesters were gathering to protest a draft provincial elections law that would give them less power in Kirkuk. Kurdish objections over a proposed power-sharing formula have blocked the law from being passed, a move that could delay the countrywide voting until next year. Startled demonstrators ran for cover in nearby buildings, some still holding up the protest banners and Kurdish flag, a yellow sun against red, white and green stripes. After the explosion, dozens of angry Kurds stormed the offices of a Turkomen political party that opposes Kurdish claims on Kirkuk, opening fire and burning cars amid accusations that their rivals were to blame. No casualties were reported.

Seriously latinlover are you on crack? you cant win this fuckin war do you get it? you lost this war 5 years ago when you enetred Iraq.

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton In my opinion, the only people who actually approve of the Bush administration are hard right ideologues and fundamentalist Christians.

AKA latinlover.

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quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover Well we didnt go to Iraq a lone. They were other sacrifices by great men from all over the world that contributed to this good cause. Starting from Euro and Latin American countries.

All of the resistance groups in Iraq are biding their time until the election this year. They know we will have a new President in six months, and if conditions remain good on the ground for Americans, we are likely to start withdrawing troops...then they can have a field day and begin their power struggle anew. There is a "cold" civil war going on in Iraq right now...and it will become a very hot civil war once U.S. troops leave. The various sides are building their forces and waiting patiently to see what happens with U.S. policy. In any case, they have NOT disbanded, and the fighting will break out again next year regardless of who wins.

I won't deny they are probably hoping Obama will win the election, because that means less resistance to their internal civil war. When we leave, they will have a very bloody conflict and the strongest side will prevail. If Mccain wins, the status quo will be in effect. There will be no huge final conflict.. There will just be the slow bleed of suicide bombings against civilians around the country which will break the spirit of Iraqis. And U.S. troops will be stationed in Iraq FOREVER getting killed with roadside bombs every week, which will slowly break the spirit of Americans.

Either scenario isn't good..and we can thank the neocons for getting us into this horrible mess.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider No you don't. If you did you would have spoken up years ago when it was clear to everyone but the criminally stupid that this administration's polices were failing and was a failure for YEARS at the expense of our soldier's lives, taxpayer money, and Iraqi civilians lives. It's sadly pathetic to see you "conservatives" suddenly cling to the successes of the surge strategy as if was never a strategy that originated from the "liberal" (which includes McCain) camp to begin with back in 2003 or 2004. God forbid you guys develop the testiculure fortitude to demand results from a commander in chief on your own without the necessary politicized cliffnotes from your party . What's even sadder is that your lauded Bush administration STILL has no strategy. Yay the surge has reduced violence! Way to embrace a strategy advocated back in 2003/2004. What's next??? Good night you princes of Maine, you kings of New England. You're still a bunch of children ...

Sorry for the late response, I had missed this thread.

Clearly you dont know what your talking about. We have military & governmental goals. The military is very obious. Here are some points of The Program of the National Unity Government of Iraq that was adopted in May 2006:

The government sets forth this program to preserve the unity of the Iraqi people of all creeds and ethnicities and to build a constitutional, democratic, unitary, and pluralistic Iraq that will abide by the Constitution and the law and that guarantees the rights and freedoms of all Iraqis, ensuring the active participation of women as well as strengthening the role of civil organizations by encouraging their development and ensuring their independence.


The National Unity Government is composed of all the winning slates in the election who also declare their commitment to the principles and basics of this program, which are:

The composition of the National Unity Government based on the representation of all the components of Iraqi society according to the election results and the interests of the country.

To work according to the Constitution and abide by it, and that any future changes will occur according to article 142 of the Constitution. (Article 142 stipulates that Iraqi voters shall determine any constitutional amendments.) (Download Constitution PDF)

To pursue a policy of national dialogue and work to widen political participation within a constitutional framework in order to build a free, pluralistic, unitary, and democratic Iraq in the spirit of honesty and reconciliation.

The rejection of violence and the clear denunciation of fascist and sectarian agendas. Denouncing terrorism in all its forms and joining all efforts to fight it by implementing anti-terrorism laws in an effective way through the judiciary and related state institutions. Creating the right conditions to establish an atmosphere of love and tolerance amongst the citizens of the country with respect for international standards of human rights.

Protecting the sovereignty of Iraq and reinforcing its independence and unity and dealing with the issue of the presence of the Multi-National Forces according to Security Council Resolution 1546, and speeding up the plans of completing the preparation of the Iraqi forces in accordance with the Constitution and the principles of professionalism and national loyalty. Speeding up the process of transferring security responsibilities and powers to the Iraqi Army, police, and security forces. Also emphasizing the principle of cooperation between Iraq and the Multi-National Forces in a way that will enable the achievement of self reliance in accordance with an objective timetable so that the Iraqi forces may assume the security task in full and the end of the missions of the Multi-National Forces and allow their return to their countries.

Strengthening state institutions and building a state based on the rule of law. Espousing principles of administration and institutionalism and rejecting autocratic and arbitrary decision-making, regarding ministries and state institutions as national entities that are the property of the people and not a particular party's or minister's dominion, and preventing the monopolization, domination or control of government, administration, or public institutions by any sect or group.

Rejecting autocracy, dictatorship, sectarianism, and racism in all its forms and incorporating this attitude in all government policies and practices.

Women constitute half of society and are nurturers of the other half, and therefore must take an active role in building the society and the state. Their rights should be respected in all fields.

The youth are the hope of the future, therefore all necessities to create a good and suitable atmosphere for them to develop their talents and capabilities should be made available, in what helps to build a patriotic Iraq and values.

Maintaining religious shrines, developing them, and providing full support for their security and the security of pilgrims as well as promoting religious tourism.

Supporting universities and ensuring their independence. Reviewing the syllabuses at all stages of education in order to update and rid them of fascist and sectarian ideology, thus reinforcing national unity.

Ensuring the independence of the Iraqi Media Network, and the National Communications Council and preventing Government interference in their affairs, and adhering to the laws that regulate their work.

Drafting a comprehensive plan for reconstruction and development, taking into consideration the reality of deprivation, injustice and underdevelopment that affected the areas and their inhabitants as a result of the policies and the despotism of the previous regime.

Reinvigorating the process of reconstruction and giving priority to damaged and deprived areas.

Speeding up the reconstruction of the electricity sector.

Regulating the hydrocarbon (oil and gas) sector by issuing legislation that ensures the rights of future federal units and provinces in relation to it are upheld in accordance with the Constitution.

Encouraging investment and attracting national and international capital in a way that helps development and reconstruction and preserves national unity.

Giving utmost attention to the agricultural and industrial sectors, issuing suitable legislation and providing government support necessary for their development.

The government is a single united body representing Iraq and the people of Iraq that is selected through the mechanism of free elections. The relationship between the federal government and the local government and council is to be regulated in a way that reinforces the principle of federalism and decentralization in building the country and developing the relationship between the federal units of Iraq .

Building a relationship of friendship, mutual respect and cooperation with neighboring countries and the world in a way that achieves the common interests of Iraq and those countries without interfering in their internal affairs. The adoption of dialogue and negotiations to solve any outstanding issues.

Reinforcing the essential role of future federal units and the provincial councils. Holding free and fair elections for provincial councils and relying on them to run these provinces and federal units and regulating the relationship between them and the central government according to the Constitution and the laws regulating this matter.

The government commits itself to the implementation of article 140 of the constitution, that relies on article 58 of the TAL that specifies 3 stages: normalization, census, and referendum in Kirkuk and other areas of unresolved status. Following its formation, the government will start taking the necessary steps for the normalization procedures which include returning towns and villages that were originally part of Kirkuk , this stage ends on March 29, 2007, then the census stage starts from July 31, 2007 and the last stage which is the referendum will be finalized on Nov. 15, 2007. (This point deals with resolving territorial issues created by the tyranny of the former regime of Saddam Hussein.)

The government commits itself to tackling the security situation through the adoption of a comprehensive plan that incorporates security, economic, social and other elements, and all the elements are to be followed up with the same level of attention.

Adopting the principle of justice and efficiency in running the country and in the distribution of responsibilities and employment in government offices, the army, the police, the security apparatus and embassies in a way that allows fair participation and the improvement of professional standards.

Setting up effective mechanisms for monitoring expenditure and dealing with administrative and financial corruption, and acting on the relevant constitutional articles and adhering to them.

Developing a social welfare system to deal with issues of poverty and underdevelopment.

Developing the institutions of education and scientific research that serve the construction of the new Iraq and being in line with the needs of progress and development.

Reviewing the structure and the laws governing the independent commissions and supporting their roles, which includes the Supreme National Debaathification Comiittee and the Anti-corruption Committee, in a way that does not contradict the constitution and its amendments.

Reviewing the electoral law and the formation of the Electoral Commission.

Work to control the international borders and their crossing points and the utilization of relevant constitutional articles in this regard.

Work to stop forced deportations from all parts of the country, and return deportees to their original habitats.

Fostering scientific talent and providing the secure atmosphere and suitable living standards to prevent migration outside the country and attract those that have left to return.

Setting up of a governmental committee immediately following the formation of the cabinet with a task of following up the issues of the detained, involving the judicial system by referring the accused to the courts, and immediately releasing those who were detained without a court order and encouraging Iraqi and international organizations to follow up the files of the detained and visiting detention centers and meeting detainees without obstacles.

Implementing law 91 relating to the militias. (This point deals with the dissolution of militias and integrating their members into Iraq security forces.)

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

Why don't you answer the rest of his post instead of just one sentence where you think you have a chance at a rebuttal?

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

how can you win or lose a war on terror that never ends? its just meant to be sustained, not won or lost.

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quote:

Originally posted by Clovis Why don't you answer the rest of his post instead of just one sentence where you think you have a chance at a rebuttal?

I did! He is just a frustrated liberal

I mean the far left comes out bitching about the war and yet they have no strategy for victory. Okay, I know what the strategy is.... to get out by 2009

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quote:

Originally posted by Krypton College tuition should be free, so should healthcare.

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover I did! He is just a frustrated liberal I mean the far left comes out bitching about the war and yet they have no strategy for victory. Okay, I know what the strategy is.... to get out by 2009

you're a fucking moron. occrider is anything but a (US) liberal. your understanding of political theory is shit. one wonders why you even bother posting in here as all it does is display your lack of political acumen. do us all a favour and fuck off.

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