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Originally posted by Dervish All I see is a litany of wishy washy bull shit words and no commitments to actual policy. That said haven't been seeing much about it.

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obam...ntForChange.pdf

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Wow....a Saddam advocate? Sad!!!

People did have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better living conditions then this bullshit democracy of Bush.

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But all this is soooooooooooo unspecific!

I've tried reading the plan:

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BARACk OBAMA’S PLAN Protect Social Security Obama is committed to ensuring Social Security is solvent and viable for the American people, now and in the future. Obama will be honest with the American people about the long-term solvency of Social Security and the ways we can address the shortfall. Obama will protect Social Security benefits for current and future beneficiaries alike. And he does not believe it is necessary or fair to hardworking seniors to raise the retirement age. Obama is strongly opposed to privatizing Social Security. Obama believes that the first place to look for ways to strengthen Social Security is the payroll tax system. Currently, the Social Security payroll tax applies to only the first $97,500 a worker makes. Obama supports increasing the maximum amount of earnings covered by Social Security and he will work with Congress and the American people to choose a payroll tax reform package that will keep Social Security solvent for at least the next half century.

That COMMITS TO NOTHING!!!! 99% is bullshit. Even the bit he says he going to do, that is raise the level he doesn't say to where!!! It's a non statement and just an example of many.

It is largely devoid of metrics which can be measured and held to.

I mean the next part of the plan:

quote:

Strengthen Retirement Savings Reform Corporate Bankruptcy Laws to Protect Workers and Retirees: Current bankruptcy laws protect banks before workers. Obama will protect pensions by putting promises to workers higher on the list of debts that companies cannot shed; ensuring that the bankruptcy courts do not demand more sacrifice from workers than executives; telling companies that they cannot issue executive bonuses while cutting worker pensions; increasing the amount of unpaid wages and benefits workers can claim in court; and limiting the circumstances under which retiree benefits can be reduced.

None of that actually commits to anything. There is not a measurable promise in it.

I mean take this line it seems like a promise but what does it mean?

quote:

increasing the amount of unpaid wages and benefits workers can claim in court

which ones? how much? when will this be delivered? how will this be delivered?


EDIT:
I mean once you strip out all the emotive statements there isn't much left e.g.: "And he does not believe it is necessary or fair to hardworking seniors to raise the
retirement age." Actually consider he can't force pension funds not to raise the retirement age if the sums don't add up it just looks like a lot of shit. And what is this believe why not "he commits to"?

Last edited by Dervish on Jul-31-2008 at 20:17

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Originally posted by Dervish But all this is soooooooooooo unspecific! I've tried reading the plan: That COMMITS TO NOTHING!!!! 99% is bullshit. Even the bit he says he going to do, that is raise the level he doesn't say to where!!! It's a non statement and just an example of many. It is largely devoid of metrics which can be measured and held to. I mean the next part of the plan: None of that actually commits to anything. There is not a measurable promise in it. I mean take this line it seems like a promise but what does it mean? which ones? how much? when will this be delivered? how will this be delivered?

Obama can't give "metrics" to be measured because Congress makes the laws, not the president. Obama can send legislation to Congress, but that doesn't mean Congress will enact the legislation. The president's job is mainly to enforce the laws of Congress. At least we know what Obama wants to do. Unfortunately he can't tell you what he will do EXACTLY, because as I said, powers of legislation lay with Congress.

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Originally posted by Dervish But all this is soooooooooooo unspecific! I've tried reading the plan: That COMMITS TO NOTHING!!!! 99% is bullshit. Even the bit he says he going to do, that is raise the level he doesn't say to where!!! It's a non statement and just an example of many. It is largely devoid of metrics which can be measured and held to. I mean the next part of the plan: None of that actually commits to anything. There is not a measurable promise in it. I mean take this line it seems like a promise but what does it mean? which ones? how much? when will this be delivered? how will this be delivered? EDIT: I mean once you strip out all the emotive statements there isn't much left e.g.: "And he does not believe it is necessary or fair to hardworking seniors to raise the retirement age." Actually consider he can't force pension funds not to raise the retirement age if the sums don't add up it just looks like a lot of shit. And what is this believe why not "he commits to"?

Thats as specific as it gets when outlining policy in a presidential campaign...nothing new.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by Krypton Actually there has been commitments to actual policy. Here is one.. It's the different between continuing the policies of the worst president in United States history or changing the government. I choose to change our government.

There is a large spiel that drolls on and on with emotive crap talks of ideas but commits (timescales, deliverables anything; aside from no permanent bases, how long before they are permanent?) to nothing as far as I could deduce from the time I spent watching it.

Some cursory research found this though:

>Words one thing, Actions another.<

Well that's strange. Here is the sort of thing we get:

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We will reform business rates with the introduction of a Small Business Bonus. Businesses with a rateable value of £8,000 or less will no longer pay business rates. Those with a rateable value of between £8,001 and £10,000 will be entitled to a 50% business rate relief; and businesses with a rateable value of between £10,001 and £15,000 will be entitled to a relief of 25%.

Or 1000 more police etc etc.

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Originally posted by Dervish Well that's strange. Here is the sort of thing we get: Or 1000 more police etc etc.

I don't know how it works in Scotland, but if Obama or McCain were to make such specific promises, that may be fine, great. But if Congress refuses to enact the legislation, the promise is failed, even if they tried. I don't think either politician wants to take that risk.

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Well suppose that might be the way it works there. But just in general seems wishy washy to me.

I mean is there anything these that you say "actually don't agree with that"? Aside from possibly the commitment to leaving Iraq.