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Originally posted by NeoPhono The problem isn't if they don't have the internet, it's that they do have email. The amount of far-right, ultra-conservative chain mail and message forwarding out there is staggering. Unfortunately, I have a few family members who seem to be in these loops and occasionally I'll have the "privilege" of reading some. The amount of "facts" and "truths" that these convey which are completely false and slanderous is astounding, but the problem is they're unquestionably believed as true. It's funny how these people will be completely distrustful of anything said by a politician, especially them damn "libruls," but they'll take these inflammatory emails as gospel. It takes a little bit of skill and knowledge to be able to use the net to find truth in politics and politicians, but you can be a complete idiot and still be able to read and forward email. It's a shame.

Guess what...these people want a king, not a president. Why do you think they give unquestionable loyalty to authority, without question. This country was founded on dissent, and the conservative movement have betrayed those ideals. They demand obedience to their agenda, or you're not patriotic enough.

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Originally posted by Krypton Guess what...these people want a king, not a president. Why do you think they give unquestionable loyalty to authority, without question. This country was founded on dissent, and the conservative movement have betrayed those ideals. They demand obedience to their agenda, or you're not patriotic enough.

The irony being that true patriotism in this country is all about standing against the grain.

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Originally posted by DJ Shibby The irony being that true patriotism in this country is all about standing against the grain.

says who? patriotism is merely the hijacking of somebody's emotions. its a mug's game. you can define patriotism any way you like. as soon as anyone mentions patriotism in their rhetoric you can be sure that they are attempting to turn off your brain and inspire your heart.

try and define what your country stands for and i can give you a million examples that dispute that definition.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN says who? patriotism is merely the hijacking of somebody's emotions. its a mug's game. you can define patriotism any way you like. as soon as anyone mentions patriotism in their rhetoric you can be sure that they are attempting to turn off your brain and inspire your heart. try and define what your country stands for and i can give you a million examples that dispute that definition.

I'll agree with this and retract my statement based on our language being crap.

Nothing wrong with inspiration, but it has to be genuine.

I still think you can be a "patriot" in a benign way. You can "love" your country and the ideals that it was founded upon while not becoming a sheep to its politics. Now, when you use "patriotism" the way Nazi Germany or some current US political movements do, in that not following an agenda makes you un-patriotic (which is one step above being a child-rapist, it seems) then you have a problem.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN really? i find it all rather depressing. how is the rest of the world meant to respect the US citizenry when the republican nomination shows such little respect for them in his VP choice?

Oh look, as an exercise in democracy it's fucking pathetic. Everything that's wrong with the American system is on display right now: the disproportionate leverage the electoral college gives to otherwise irrelevent states, the overwhelming influence of money on the campaign (even if - for once - it benefits the Democrats this time around), the preoccupation with the politics of personality, the incapacity of the campaigns to address issues of substance, the fixation on trivial issues mandated by the 24 hour news-cycle, the dangerous amount of executive power vested in the hands of a single human-being, the pandering to the worst, most visceral emotions in people - all this is a pretty sad indictment on the state of politics in a nation that was once (I am told) the beacon of democracy in this world.

But as a spectacle, as a piece of theatre, it's simply amazing.

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30%-50% of (voting) americans are about to show the world how fucking stupid they are. its just sad seriously, do you feel anything but (uneasy) nationalistic pride for howard/costello/turnbull when compared to this clusterfuck? fuck me, how embarrassing for the sole superpower.

Yeah, I never liked Howard or many of his policies, but I could at least recognise that his political philosophy was (to the extent permitted by political expediency) at least well thought-out and intellectually sincere. Compare that to people like Palin and Bush - the two most intellectually incurious people you will ever meet - and you have to question what is going through people's minds when they seriously consider them to be viable candidates for the most powerful executive office on the planet. I can understand (to an extent) the support for conservative politics, but I will never be able to understand the support for conservative politicians quite so obviously inept as Palin or Bush.

I know that the Australian public is hardly a bastion of enlightenment at times, but at least you can rest assured that here ridiculous figures like that are guaranteed to be political non-starters. Fortunately, incompetent politicians here don't tend to last very long. But that only makes the American phenomenon even more puzzling: as Sam Harris pointed out, when the American people are so intollerant of ineptitude in all other walks of life, why are they willing to support it so obdurately in their public officials?

My advice is to not worry about it this time round: for once, the smart guy's going to win. Until then, just sit back and enjoy the ride.