I heard about the black lion mod for the HD192.. no idea if it could be applied to 24i/o or 2408mk3... they've got totally different converters as far as i know.

I think the focals are more in my price range, and when pitted against the K&H's... its much of a muchness after reading some other threads on gearslutz it would seem... and in an imperfect room, with imperfect power with imperfect ears.. i think the focals would more than suffice to bring out top notch mixes. I did read that a one guy switch to running them off a Guardian Pro -6 plugs power conditioner and used a Dangerous Music volume control and he seems to think that made a signifcant improvement to the low end and highs.

http://www.blacklionaudio.com/motu_firewire_mod.html

$595... b/l upgrade to the 24i/o... might be an option.. dang cheaper than $9000.00

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Originally posted by DJ Sound can you do the black lion mod to your 24 i/o?...the 828 with that mod is unreal nice

Mixed opinions on the BLA mods for the MOTU stuff. A lot of people think they aren't worth the money. Personally, I'd feel better about just buying a unit with better converters rather than paying for something aftermarket. Remember, you get what you pay for, especially at this level.

quote:

Originally posted by johno27 I heard about the black lion mod for the HD192.. no idea if it could be applied to 24i/o or 2408mk3... they've got totally different converters as far as i know. I think the focals are more in my price range, and when pitted against the K&H's... its much of a muchness after reading some other threads on gearslutz it would seem... and in an imperfect room, with imperfect power with imperfect ears.. i think the focals would more than suffice to bring out top notch mixes. I did read that a one guy switch to running them off a Guardian Pro -6 plugs power conditioner and used a Dangerous Music volume control and he seems to think that made a signifcant improvement to the low end and highs.

Exactly right. The Focals will stand up well in an untreated room where as the other monitors are really getting into that 5% range of improvement. You are wise to consider the other aspects of your signal path as well. $3,000 monitors going through a $300 monitor controller (read: MBK) is a definite no-no.

Right now I have mine going through a Central Station Passive monitor controller, which isn't terrible since it is passive, but worth improving sooner rather than later. I have the Dangerous Monitor ST on the "must buy" list as an improvement there as well.

All in all, I'll probably end up spending close to $10,000 when you add up the monitors, audio interface and monitor control. The advantage is that at the end of the day I have a squeaky clean signal path and the system will make things MUCH easier in terms of sound selection and mixing. The monitors alone have already paid dividends in improving my mixes and I haven't even had them for a week! It makes future investments in sound generation sources (read: synths & effects) that much more rewarding due to an extremely high quality monitoring system and signal path. No point in getting a badd-ass analog hardware unit if your ADC sucks.

Last edited by Eric J on Oct-09-2008 at 20:30

I agree 100%, I'll be looking to go for the Focals/Dangerous Monitor/An upgraded power conditioner some good cabling. Unfortunately I just cannot get away with less than 32 ins/outs.. running up a 9000 dollar dac bill is just out of the question especially thanks to our currency at the moment (9 to the $!!! up from 6 a week ago).

if the $600 mod works.. it may be a far better bet (at least in the meantime until i hit the lottery) to go along with the focals... so many toys to buy, so little time... lol

I'm also trying to add a prophet08 to my collection at the same time, and maybe upgrade my UAD cards to the new quads... and get a poco..

ive heard of tons and tons of people with the black lion mod and everyone ive heard of...loves it..its basically the same parts as the apogee if i rememeber correctly..or similar

quote:

Originally posted by johno27 I agree 100%, I'll be looking to go for the Focals/Dangerous Monitor/An upgraded power conditioner some good cabling.

I'm going with Mogami Gold cabling. The Power conditioner is another thing I'll have to pick up as well.

quote:

Originally posted by johno27 Unfortunately I just cannot get away with less than 32 ins/outs.. running up a 9000 dollar dac bill is just out of the question especially thanks to our currency at the moment (9 to the $!!! up from 6 a week ago).

Totally understand. Its probably going to take me the better part of 2009 to complete all of this.

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Originally posted by johno27 I'm also trying to add a prophet08 to my collection at the same time, and maybe upgrade my UAD cards to the new quads... and get a poco..

You and I seem to have the same taste. The Prophet 08 is next on my list after all the hardware upgrades!

Great thread guys, and it's refreshing to see more of this type of discussion coming up here.

I'm with Eric on the Black Lion mods - if you only have $600 total to spend to upgrade your studio, then the mod would be worth it as you're retaining the original capital investment in the motu, which you probably won't recoup if you sell it.

I hate car analogies (all too prevalent in audio forum discussions for some reason?) but can't help thinking it's like those guys who buy $20k honda cars and pump $50k in to them to make them go like a sportscar, when they could have gone out and bought a Porsche(etc.) in the first place.

But if you can stretch, it's better to go with the lynx system. I've done A/B's against PTDH systems and they are noticeably better.

Have you considered the Apogee symphony? The AD16x's don't suffer so much from the "Apogee sound" and gives you a lot of connectivity (64ch) for the cash, all from one PCI card. It also works out fairly competitive. Just a thought....

There is another option: to get standalone converters (prism, weiss, lavry etc.) then a interface option such as multiple ADAT or single MADI? Probably would not be that cost effective, but second hand it could be an option.

As for speakers, it becomes a case of diminishing returns. Once you're at the level of focal's (in terms of both quality vs. cash) you can easily end up spending a couple of extra grand on other speakers for an incredibly minor difference that might not even fit your personal subjectivity anyway.

Eric, we need that full review!!!!!!!

I've got to say I've heard nothing but praise for the DM ST controller but seriously, $1900 for a monitor volume control? Eric, that has to be pretty low on your list especially as the CS is a darn good and uncolored piece of kit anyway?

As for cables what are you guys considering - I ask because this it's a field I worked in for several years, and is often just an afterthought.

Currently cable wise I've made up all my own using Somner cable and neutrik plugs.. hand wired and soldered.. painstakingkly...

I'm just thinking.. if you're audio interface goes straight into the active speakers.. maybe you can just bypass the whole monitoring part.. i currently do it that was as everything else in my studio goes into the mac/logic via the 24io and then back out.. so i really don't need to monitor anything else.

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Originally posted by johno27 Currently cable wise I've made up all my own using Somner cable and neutrik plugs.. hand wired and soldered.. painstakingkly...

Best way to do it unless you know a company that makes handmade cables. Not familiar with Somner - heard of them but never used.

quote:

Originally posted by johno27 I'm just thinking.. if you're audio interface goes straight into the active speakers.. maybe you can just bypass the whole monitoring part.. i currently do it that was as everything else in my studio goes into the mac/logic via the 24io and then back out.. so i really don't need to monitor anything else.

Yes, as long as your fine with your master volume control being in the software domain. As always the less things in the signal chain, the better.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Eric, we need that full review!!!!!!!

I'll have it soon, no worries. I'd want to have them for a little longer than 3 days before I post something up. I don't think they have even had enough hours to be fully broken in yet. That being said, I mixed down a track I wrote a month ago last night in about 2 hours at medium volume and it sounded miles better than anything else I had ever done AND translated properly to other systems with no adjustments at all. So you can take that for what its worth.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I've got to say I've heard nothing but praise for the DM ST controller but seriously, $1900 for a monitor volume control? Eric, that has to be pretty low on your list especially as the CS is a darn good and uncolored piece of kit anyway?

Well there is some discussion on the quality of the CS in regards to stereo spread. Some people who have upgraded from the CS to the ST have noticed that their stereo field was noticably wider when run through the ST. It's definitely not at the top of my priority list ,but I'd hate to spend $8,000 on outstanding monitors and interface, just to have my squeaky clean signal path screwed up by sub-standard monitor control. I'm debating on which to get first: the ST or the Prophet 08. Its a toss up at this point, but I have several months to go before I will need to make that decision, so I have some time to think about it.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN As for cables what are you guys considering - I ask because this it's a field I worked in for several years, and is often just an afterthought.

Currently I'm running with Mogami Gold. They are expensive, but the build quality is superb. I'm not planning on changing that, but I will need new cables when I pick up the Aurora because it uses a DSUB snake with XLR and the MOTU is all TRS, so most of my existing cabling will have to be replaced.

I think for now I'm happy to keep the master volume level in s/w domain. #1 priority is monitors, #2 is either modding the 24io (dpending on feedback) or else going for lynx/apogee.. assuming my kidneys are still worth something on the black market..

quote:

Originally posted by johno27 I think for now I'm happy to keep the master volume level in s/w domain. #1 priority is monitors, #2 is either modding the 24io (dpending on feedback) or else going for lynx/apogee.. assuming my kidneys are still worth something on the black market..

LOL apogee? lynx? When did TAs get so techy?
I have a moded 828mk2 and I am happy with it.
I have it clocked through an external clock though.
I would like one of those better options but for now I am focused more on getting my tracks
sounding good enough.

One better and cheaper option is keeping your 24/io and buying a stereo ad/da convertor like the legendary apogee psx100. The used to retail for $3.000 and are top of the line.
You can get them for $1000. Clock it to the unit and hook it up via spdif.
Your sound will improve because of the the apogee clock.
When you are ready to mix you can record one by one sound module (I am assuming you have hardware units) through the psx and get a really good polished sound without spending 10.000.
It is even going to sound better than the multichannel stuff
This is what I am looking to do in the future.