quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...8&forumid=66&s= I think this says it all really. Yes, a label slapped on the content (and even person) by others, one they don't even identify with, and then being penalized for it. Sounds like an authoritarian mindset to me. Anyways, your reason are clear... and apparently you are the arbiter (moderating is not the same as authoritarianism, but apparently that a dissenting view as well).

So put it in a poll then. Jesus Christ on a bike. Lira is doing a fine job (if anything, he is way too lenient), and this thread is about as ridiculous as masturbating in coffins - the subject matter of this thread you're trying to save, which, by the way, is emblematic of the declining appeal of this subforum.

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quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov So put it in a poll then. Jesus Christ on a bike. Lira is doing a fine job (if anything, he is way too lenient), and this thread is about as ridiculous as masturbating in coffins - the subject matter of this thread you're trying to save, which, by the way, is emblematic of the declining appeal of this subforum.

Note: It's not my agreement or disagreement with the content, it's principle... one that you share I believe; open discourse and free speech . Yes, Lira normally does do a fantastic job but he's not error free, and I don't see the harm in pointing out disagreements.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov if anything, he is way too lenient

I agree with you, and this is why I'm actually surprised by the overall reaction: I hardly do anything, and I guess I learnt from Trancer-X that this may not be the best approach. So, I decided to change a few things around here and check whether there's any improvement.

I mean, I'm leaving this thread open so you guys can criticise me: If that's not believing in free speech, I don't know what it is.

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Indiana Clones Upcoming Sets
[ I May Upload Something Someday ]

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Note: It's not my agreement or disagreement with the content, it's principle... one that you share I believe; open discourse and free speech . Yes, Lira normally does do a fantastic job but he's not error free, and I don't see the harm in pointing out disagreements.

well, maybe they can go have their 'open discourse' on prisonplanet, where no doubt the deeply-important policy discussions concerning masturbating in coffins can get their due attention and maybe change the world

quote:

Originally posted by BSE Let's be honest, your writing style is mediocre at best.

you would have to be one of the worst "judges" of just about anything in the PDD. so, coming from you, this statement is quite the compliment.

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN well, maybe they can go have their 'open discourse' on prisonplanet, where no doubt the deeply-important policy discussions concerning masturbating in coffins can get their due attention and maybe change the world

I've gone to that website probably even less that you have (i.e. ages ago), so keep your speculative nonsense and categorizations to yourself. Maybe if you weren't such a condescending a-hole, people might actually be able to have a discussion with you and vice-versa. I did not address you, I never even made a reference to you, not was I rude or condescending in my post, but you still felt an urge to react for reasons that are completely irrelevant. You're actually displaying the exact same behavior of conspiracy theorists I hate, broad speculative categorizations loaded with emotional negativity. Maybe you should go out more and do things you that let you appreciate life, perhaps you might get less wound up over the absurd? I'm saying that in all seriousness btw. Just as much as conspiracy theorist like propagating their world view, you are no different.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by Lira I agree with you, and this is why I'm actually surprised by the overall reaction: I hardly do anything, and I guess I learnt from Trancer-X that this may not be the best approach. So, I decided to change a few things around here and check whether there's any improvement. I mean, I'm leaving this thread open so you guys can criticise me: If that's not believing in free speech, I don't know what it is.

Limiting speech is free speech, gotcha. I'll keep that your definition in mind when you mention it in the future.

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"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I've gone to that website probably even less that you have (i.e. ages ago), so keep your speculative nonsense and categorizations to yourself.

i would say we're probably on par, and i would like to point out that i specifically used "they" and not "you" in my post. i certainly wasn't suggesting that i include you in that ilk, so don't be so sensitive

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Maybe if you weren't such a condescending a-hole, people might actually be able to have a discussion with you and vice-versa.

i have lots of wonderful discussions with lots of wonderful people. me and theist alex have been having a wonderful religion chat for instance. you reap what you sow.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I did not address you, I never even made a reference to you, not was I rude or condescending in my post, but you still felt an urge to react for reasons that are completely irrelevant.

posting on a public forum means you are putting yourself out there. why does the fact that you didn't specifically address me make a difference? again, whilst i quoted you im sure as hell not attacking you, im attacking them (and yes, i think there's a fairly sizeable difference).

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z You're actually displaying the exact same behavior of conspiracy theorists I hate, broad speculative categorizations loaded with emotional negativity.

ahhhh, but no lies. therein lies the difference.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Maybe you should go out more and do things you that let you appreciate life, perhaps you might get less wound up over the absurd?

i recently got back from a holiday on the other side of australia, im playing heaps of games that i love and ive ditched the weed for a healthier lifestyle. i hardly think my pet peeve takes up more of my time than my blatant hedonistic pursuits do

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z I'm saying that in all seriousness btw. Just as much as conspiracy theorist like propagating their world view, you are no different.

except that i dont lie. make mistakes, sure. but i dont lie. big fucking difference. yeah, obama was born in kenya

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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i would say we're probably on par, and i would like to point out that i specifically used "they" and not "you" in my post. i certainly wasn't suggesting that i include you in that ilk, so don't be so sensitive i have lots of wonderful discussions with lots of wonderful people. me and theist alex have been having a wonderful religion chat for instance. you reap what you sow.

Ah, so I guess you've revised your opinion of me and from this point on I'll assume you do not refer to me as well, I still think it's unfair to refer to "them" in a condescending tone... but you are free to be condescending to "them." That's your choice I guess.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN posting on a public forum means you are putting yourself out there. why does the fact that you didn't specifically address me make a difference? again, whilst i quoted you im sure as hell not attacking you, im attacking them (and yes, i think there's a fairly sizeable difference).

If I'm at a party, or any public place, I don't automatically have a right to put my nose in other people's business, despite being in a public place now do I .

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN ahhhh, but no lies. therein lies the difference.

I'm sorry PKC, but that is quite arrogant and the striking similarity I was talking about. Neither you nor the conspiracy theorist know they are right or what they believe to be true is in fact the case. A good old centrist like yourself should know that much eh ?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i recently got back from a holiday on the other side of australia, im playing heaps of games that i love and ive ditched the weed for a healthier lifestyle. i hardly think my pet peeve takes up more of my time than my blatant hedonistic pursuits do except that i dont lie. make mistakes, sure. but i dont lie. big fucking difference. yeah, obama was born in kenya

LOL, for the record, just because I myself am not, at this point in my life anyways, a "hedonist" doesn't mean I you know what my exposure or background is. Most people try to be counter cultural, especially when they're young, or rebellious, usually quite aimlessly. I have never been comfortable or felt in place with bourgeois culture or the extreme end of nihilistic hedonistic bohemians, although I tend to have a lot more in common with the latter. Few people even know what those terms mean. Even though they have rather sexually liberal parties (you know, like orgies) and liberal drug use at them (like coke binges), I enjoy their company nonetheless as they are usually quite intelligent and are capable of processing unconventional ideas and thoughts, and no, I'm not referring to conspiracy theories here .

For the record, I don't give a shit where Obama was born or even if he's the president. I'm just relieved to have the less extreme corporate whore in office but both parties will sponsor AIPAC shills nonetheless, it's part of the unofficial job description .

EDIT: I still smoke pot though, and you should smoke more of it .

___________________
"The Greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge." -Stephen Hawking
"First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me— and there was no one left to speak out for me." -Martin Niemöller

Last edited by shaolin_Z on Dec-07-2008 at 02:35

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Note: It's not my agreement or disagreement with the content, it's principle... one that you share I believe; open discourse and free speech . Yes, Lira normally does do a fantastic job but he's not error free, and I don't see the harm in pointing out disagreements.

I believe in free speech, but to a point. There's no point in discussing the same topic ad infinitum - and all of the political censorship/new world order threads basically start from the same ill-founded (and often unsubstantiated) premises and end in the same muddled "sheeple" arguments.

They're completely pointless, and I see no problem limiting the number of existing threads so that a wider variety of topics and discussions can remain on the front page.

The thing is, this forum doesn't have to practice free speech if it doesn't want to. It's a privately-owned website that Lira has been made a steward of, and it is ultimately his call (and Swamper's) as to where the limits of free speech on this domain really lie. I hardly think this is an egregious violation of anybody's rights - it's not like he's closed all the numerous pre-existing threads on the same exact topic.

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quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Ah, so I guess you've revised your opinion of me and from this point on I'll assume you do not refer to me as well,

it has been a LONG time since i included you in that group of nutcases mate, i thought you knew that! sure, we never seem to be able to agree on anything, but (truly) your fucking intelligence and contributions to the PDD have made me re-think all kinds of things (most notably israel) and no matter what i say or do always know that underneath my vitriolic nonsense or half-understood abuse there's a healthy amount of respect, honest. i should try harder to express myself perhaps, but even when you piss me off that doesn't change my underlying appreciation for what you bring to the debate here. honest.

so, get fucked!

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Yeah shaolin, you should know that those of us who detest those types of threads do so just as much due to the content of the threads and their infinite repetition as to the manner in which debate is conducted by those that bring the subject up. As you generally put some thought and consideration in your posts, you can hardly be lumped into the same category of miscreants for whom pkc and I have a mutual disdain.

That honor is reserved for the select few who insist on only contributing the same old things to threads about the new world order and government conspiracies and dodging any actual discussion there or anywhere else in the subforum.

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