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Originally posted by Vivid Boy CHina is in pretty bad shape too right now. COnsidering all their money was invested in the states lol

good point, though they still are not nearly as bad as we are. They have been buying up a lot of land over here as well. Hell they own quite a bit of New York.

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Originally posted by Arbiter Although not bailing out the american auto industry may have some unfortunate externalities, I agree. Ch. 11 is not the end of the world, and it will get them out from underneath the burden of their union contracts which make them unable to compete with foreign mfgrs while facilitating a much needed change in management.

Many auto part suppliers actually go through bankruptcy for the same reason and still operate (I work with some of them on the tax side). It unconscionable that bondholders, equityholders, management, and taxpayer's are bearing huge burdens in this deal but the union will not budge. I say we let chrysler fall so the companies know the government isn't playing games, and hopefully the union changes its stance when 50,000 UAW workers are unemployed as a result. I wonder if UAW workers actually support the union leadership.

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Originally posted by XaNaX the unions greed is responsible for a good part of the problems with the big 3. I never thought they were stupid enough to choose unemployment for all their members over reduced wages. rite them off in the future, they know this.

Ya i guess their flexing of muscles didnt prove effective and now they will pay for it. I seriously doubt they will though, and i imagine the government will pass something at the begining of next year.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On OOKA-OOKA ME NACHOS ME PRESS KEYS ON COMPUTER GOOD

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Originally posted by Vivid Boy CHina is in pretty bad shape too right now. COnsidering all their money was invested in the states lol

China makes America's social security crisis look like fun and games.

Think about it - the one child policy has been in effect for nearly a generation - it succeeded in curbing growth rates, but in the next twenty years they're going to see a tremendous spike in retirees - their economy simply won't be able to support it.





India is who the US should be watching out for...

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Last edited by Lebezniatnikov on Dec-12-2008 at 16:41

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Originally posted by XaNaX the best thing about the big 3 collapsing would be the end of the UAW

agreed

No one is right. Everyone is wrong.

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Originally posted by Jean-François No one is right. Everyone is wrong.

what a well thought out post.

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Originally posted by Jean-François No one is right. Everyone is wrong.

Dec 2008 join date, so whose douchebag alt are you?

I just heard that there are over 700,000 people that no longer work for these failing companies that are still earning wages (from past union deals). One guy was saying how he has made more in retirement wages than he did while he was actually working. How fucked up is that? No wonder it's falling apart. BMW is doing great in non-unionized South Carolina.

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Originally posted by Lebezniatnikov China makes America's social security crisis look like fun and games. Think about it - the one child policy has been in effect for nearly a generation - it succeeded in curbing growth rates, but in the next twenty years they're going to see a tremendous spike in retirees - their economy simply won't be able to support it. India is who the US should be watching out for...

Let's assume india were to displace China. That would be good for the US because the US has arms deals and nuclear accords with India. It seems that India is america's second biggest ally in asia (first being Japan). Nevertheless, i'm not convinced that having a youthful population means much. That is only relevant if they can all find jobs that can sustain the retirement benefits of the aging population. Since it seems every indian with an advanced degree rides the path train into NYC to work in the IT department of Goldman, Merryl, and other banks, I think India is having a difficult time retaining its best talents.

I really don't see the US Gov't NOT bailing the big 3 out unfortunately. If we don't it's a 1930's depression for sure

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Originally posted by The17sss I just heard that there are over 700,000 people that no longer work for these failing companies that are still earning wages (from past union deals). One guy was saying how he has made more in retirement wages than he did while he was actually working. How fucked up is that? No wonder it's falling apart. BMW is doing great in non-unionized South Carolina.

Yeah, i think unions have survived past their utility since the job market today is much more flexible than it was previously. If factory workers don't like market wages they hone their skill set to increase their value or they should get advanced degrees. They should be compensated for the value they add to the business not for the amount of coersion they can impose on the company. To keep american manufacturing viable, manufacturers should be able to pay market wages. If someone is willing to do the same job for $15 an hour, why should these companies be paying $50 an hour? It's a shame these companies locked themselves into these irresponsible contracts. Unfortunately, when labor strikes it really hurts.