Most of the crackdown on nightlife happened during the Clinton administration. "Wild young people on drugs" are a favorite target for moral panic on both sides of the political aisle. The fear this whips up always seems to work on parents, because after all, who wants their kids to end up dead or brain-damaged? Better that they be doing a bit of underage drinking at a friend's place than dancing in some old warehouse while out of their mind on pills of dubious composition, right?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Most of the crackdown on nightlife happened during the Clinton administration. "Wild young people on drugs" are a favorite target for moral panic on both sides of the political aisle. The fear this whips up always seems to work on parents, because after all, who wants their kids to end up dead or brain-damaged? Better that they be doing a bit of underage drinking at a friend's place than dancing in some old warehouse while out of their mind on pills of dubious composition, right?

You pretty much summed it up. As much as I liked Bill Clinton, it all happened during his terms. I guess everything was going so well in society that they had to focus on the stupid pointless shit, nothing better to focus our country's money or resources on.

I was having a discussion like this with a friend actually, over a bowl of some sour diesel. It's going to be interesting what the scene turns into in the next years. Every shitty situation in history or society has brought about a crazy important cultural, musical, artistic, and expressional revolution.

Follow me here, but with criminality going up, can our cities' cops focus on shutting down our clubs and enforcing stupid laws like underage drinking and smoking indoors? Everything's going out of business, houses and buildings are getting foreclosed. In man's darkest hours, man has always come back with some kind of uprising that goes hand-in-hand with art, music, and drugs. Think the hippies of the 60s, the "roaring 20s", the punk scene of the 80s. I'm not saying what's happening is or is going to be at that level, but I'm just making a point.

We're going to see some interesting stuff in electronic music soon. The past few years have brought a huge amount of SMALL clubs to New York City, and a shutdown of all the big ones. Pop music itself has become very electronic and dancey. People who listened to hip hop and gangster rap are suddenly finding themselves enjoying Justice, David Guetta, and Kanye West dance remixes. I'm seeing it slowly with my own eyes a huge group of people getting into the music in the past few years. Maybe good things are coming

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Originally posted by DJ Eco Follow me here, but with criminality going up, can our cities' cops focus on shutting down our clubs and enforcing stupid laws like underage drinking and smoking indoors?

Is criminality going up, though? My understanding is that it peaked around 1990 and has gone down ever since, in the U.S.

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Everything's going out of business, houses and buildings are getting foreclosed. In man's darkest hours, man has always come back with some kind of uprising that goes hand-in-hand with art, music, and drugs. Think the hippies of the 60s, the "roaring 20s", the punk scene of the 80s. I'm not saying what's happening is or is going to be at that level, but I'm just making a point.

You know, I've thought of things like this before, but I'm not so sure about how well it fits. What were the "dark hours" preceding the '60s? I guess the Vietnam War was concurrent with them...

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We're going to see some interesting stuff in electronic music soon. The past few years have brought a huge amount of SMALL clubs to New York City, and a shutdown of all the big ones. Pop music itself has become very electronic and dancey. People who listened to hip hop and gangster rap are suddenly finding themselves enjoying Justice, David Guetta, and Kanye West dance remixes. I'm seeing it slowly with my own eyes a huge group of people getting into the music in the past few years. Maybe good things are coming

I hope so. Most of my friends are dance-music heads, though, so I don't really have a good perspective on where "general" trends are heading...

So, did Bush do anything against parties and clubs?
He oughta be a small minded person in that area too...

Technically the RAVE act did pass.... Biden and Co just edited the words that made it single out EDM scenes but its still just as fingerpointing as it was with "glow sticks" and "chill rooms".

I wrote a 14 page paper on this for my Writing class in college. (BTW I would show the paper... but to be honest this is the internet and I can see someone using it for their course and pasting their name on it as their work... hence why I wont honor a request to read the paper. Sorry)

Basically the bill wouldnt pass on its own so he added it as an amendment to the "Child Protection Act". This is right after Elizabeth Smart was found so no congressman was going to stop and look at everything attached to the bill. (You would be shocked if you read some of the bills that are must passes. The child protection act has everything from the Rave Act to a raise for senators attached on it....) The catch-all is even if you do everything in your power to stop any illegal drugs from getting into the club if people are caught on the premises with an illegal drug the owner of the establishment or the land owner falls under criminal punishment for having illegal substances at a place under their control.

Its a normal protocol to put personal agendas into must past bills. Joe is one of the worst people in congress to put his own personal views into law however he can. He single handedly went on a complete offensive against any club in DC (my hometown) that played electronic music. Namely Nation and Edge. He was the instrumental reason for Buzz leaving Nation. There was a giant rift between Electronic and Hip-Hop club goers as you could go to a hip hop club and get weed and coke like it was another drink at the bar but all the heat was on electronic music because "no way can people be listening to this without drugs".

Basically Biden saw something he didnt like and made it law. Gotta love how congress does business......

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Last edited by Imagin on Jan-12-2009 at 11:11

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Is criminality going up, though? My understanding is that it peaked around 1990 and has gone down ever since, in the U.S.

Well, from what I do know about, murder and crime rate has been rising since 2003 or so, in most of the big cities. While it's still relatively low, I know from personal experience that the NYPD has been slashed in half since then, so they are trying to do more with less. I don't know if the same goes for everywhere, but I have read that a lot of the heartland cities are going down the shitter. For example, places like St. Louis and Memphis, etc., are experiencing a huge influx in crime. Another article I read talked about the crime in some of those big housing developments and suburbs. They can't sell thousands of home in one development, so people break in, graffiti, squat, sell/do drugs in them. I don't know how relevant this all is, but I think it's interesting lol...

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You know, I've thought of things like this before, but I'm not so sure about how well it fits. What were the "dark hours" preceding the '60s? I guess the Vietnam War was concurrent with them...

I could be wrong here as well, but I think things were so clean and perfect and prosperous in the 50s (like our 90s, relatively speaking), that something had to give. That was the Vietnam War. When your brothers, sons, fathers, and neighbors are being sent to fight a war where many will die, a certain outrage comes as a result. Thus, in my opinion, some of the best music, art, film, and overall explosive movement came about. Some of it was fueled on drugs, some of it was fueled by the outrage of the War. When things are bad, changes are made. The Civil Rights fight was born out of this 1960s mess. What will be born out of ours? I know I started this conversation in terms of just music, but hey, it changed form haha...

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I hope so. Most of my friends are dance-music heads, though, so I don't really have a good perspective on where "general" trends are heading...

I could be wrong with that too. Most of my friends happen to have an open mind with music, art, films, drugs, etc., so I may not exactly be 100% correct with my view on the "pulse" of the nation as a whole. But that's just my opinion

Maybe we could just have a thread where we watch the Billboard top ten / top twenty or something?

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Originally posted by d-miurge They'd rather outlaw glowsticks.

What would Krypton do then?

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Originally posted by Max Thomson for you all obamanites who think the second coming is upon us, just remember the rave act: "The RAVE Act which threatens to squash live music and free speech was passed in 2003 when it was tacked onto an unrelated child protection bill. In 2004 there were two additional pieces of legislation considered - the CLEAN-UP Act and the Ecstasy Awareness Act - that threatened to widen the laws to prosecute anyone who holds an event and fails to prevent illicit drug use. Senator Joe Biden (D-DE) forced the controversial legislation commonly known as the "RAVE" Act through both houses of Congress as an attachment to an unrelated child abduction bill. The "RAVE" Act was passed despite the fact it did not have a public hearing, debate or vote in Congress. " http://www.drugpolicy.org/communities/raveact/ stay tuned for more of the same starting 1/20/2009!

You're just mad that your piece of shit party/candidate LOST. Go away sore loser and prepare for GREATNESS!

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Originally posted by Barachem So, did Bush do anything against parties and clubs? He oughta be a small minded person in that area too...

I don't know. I doubt he did much, given the overwhelming focus on anti-terrorism and the Iraq war. It's usually during the peaceful and stable times that issues like youth drug use get the most attention...

Meh.

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