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Originally posted by mar46017 ...Involuntary manslaughter - Is unintentional death w/ reckless disreguard. (something more than negligence) Looks like involuntary manslaughter to me since from what I've heard he thought he was reaching for his tazer.

That defense is not going to hold water in court. Tazers can only be worn on the belt as a cross draw or on the thigh about midway down for this exact reason. You never want to mistake your tazer for your sidearm. Even if he incorrectly slotted his tazer on his belt (a violation of department policy) next to his sidearm, the retention would have been a dead giveaway. Law enforcement officers are required to have a level 3 retention on their sidearm holster while a tazer holster is a level 1. There is no mistaking a level 1 for a level 3 retention. Even if he did mistake one for the other initially, the grips, weight and balance would have been a dead giveaway

We have been training this same exact scenario for the past week and can only come to the conclusion that the officer had some sort of prior personal issue, felt overwhelmed at the moment, lost his cool, had 0 stress training, fired out of frustration then realized what he had done.

His department is going to hang him out to dry.

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Originally posted by Dj Blurr If I were Johannes, I would have stayed a cop, at least until the investigation was over. I'd still have the protection of my peers, kinda. They might have even tried to help cover up whatever was being played by the media.

The reason he resigned is so he could get out of speaking with investigators.

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Originally posted by Electrophile prior personal issue, felt overwhelmed at the moment, lost his cool, had 0 stress training, fired out of frustration then realized what he had done.

Then again that may go to Voluntary Manslaughter due to the sudden quarrel/heat of passion.

Voluntary Manslaughter is also given when one has an imperfect self-defense claim. He can't claim self defense since he was threatened with deadly force so the imperfect self-defense claim would be Voluntary Manslaughter.

I still don't see murder unless you can prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt.

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Originally posted by R!CH no the sad thing is the family is suing bart for $25 million, which will fuck the transit system over even harder as it's been struggling for years with funding.

+1 BART to SJ already has had enough delays, doesn't need more

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Originally posted by mar46017 I still don't see murder unless you can prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt.

Watch the video.


If this guy doesn't get charged with 1st degree murder there will be massive riots, as there should be.

The conduct of law enforcement in this country worsens by the day.

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Originally posted by ******** Seplling don't demonstrate intelligence and educatoin - knowing does.

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Originally posted by mar46017 Then again that may go to Voluntary Manslaughter due to the sudden quarrel/heat of passion. Voluntary Manslaughter is also given when one has an imperfect self-defense claim. He can't claim self defense since he was threatened with deadly force so the imperfect self-defense claim would be Voluntary Manslaughter. I still don't see murder unless you can prove intent beyond a reasonable doubt.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with you. First degree murder is not a possible charge, and I also agree that second degree murder is a long shot. Does he deserve to be charged? Absolutely. Every officer, deputy and federal agent that I know agrees that he needs to be held accountable, but it is up to the DA to look at the evidence and the findings of an investigation to determine the charge/charges.

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Originally posted by mar46017 4 ways to get 2nd degree murder. 1. Intent to kill 2. Intent to cause grave bodily injury 3. Substantially likelihood of death...also called depraved heart or malignant heart...example shooting into a room full of people. 4. Felony murder rule - death as a result of an inherently dangerous felony.

He consciously drew his sidearm, took a stance, trained it on an unarmed suspect who was laying prone and fired into the suspects back. I think this constitutes second degree murder.

Even if he maintains that he was reaching for his tazer, why did he step back and take a stance? All arrest and control training that I have encountered teaches to use the "drive stun" feature on the tazer if the suspect is down and resisting. The reason for this is because firing a tazer from less than 5 feet does not allow the probes enough time to separate and thus diminishes the effect of the electrical current because it is only running through a small section of the body. Drive stunning isolates the electrical current to a limb so that the suspect surrenders the limb to the officer.

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Listening to the radio this morning I thought I overhead his lawyer saying he was going to be aquitted of any charges.

One of my friend thinks its due to racial issues.

he just plead not guilty... of course...

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I'm pretty sure this case is going on now and it is being tried in Downtown L.A.

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