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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

I also forgot to mention software support. Even if they manage to surmount the compatibility hurdle, the new technology would be all but useless until all of the major developers (Apple, Steinberg, Digidesign, etc.) implemented it. And considering the track record of some of these companies and the glacial place at which they deploy new releases, that seems like no small obstacle in and of itself.

I mean, it took Steinberg how many releases just to fix the stupid MIDI timing issue in Cubase? And some people insist that it's still flaky! I can't even imagine throwing a whole new instrumentation protocol at these guys right now. But I guess you never know, and stranger things have happened in the tech world.


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Old Post Feb-03-2009 03:14  Canada
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kitphillips
is actually a guy.



Registered: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia

Everyone should just get behind OSC IMO. Once software implements it, its just a matter of the hardware releasing a firmware update to run OSC over the USB connection rather than MIDI.


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Old Post Feb-03-2009 03:38  Australia
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DJ RANN
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: May 2001
Location: Hollywood....

quote:
Originally posted by kitphillips
Everyone should just get behind OSC IMO. Once software implements it, its just a matter of the hardware releasing a firmware update to run OSC over the USB connection rather than MIDI.


True but that leaves the 10's of 1000's of non-usb MIDI gear incompatible. It would have be a system that incorporates standard MIDI and the new form (only 3 conductors are used on the MIDI din, out of the 5).

Old Post Feb-03-2009 04:58 
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alanzo
The Equalizer Womanizer



Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Boston, MA

One thing that would be nice is to not have to be at the midi trigger-on for the note to play. Meaning it could start at any point in the note. Not crucial, it would be nice, though.


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Old Post Feb-03-2009 14:33  United States
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kitphillips
is actually a guy.



Registered: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia

quote:
Originally posted by DJ RANN
True but that leaves the 10's of 1000's of non-usb MIDI gear incompatible. It would have be a system that incorporates standard MIDI and the new form (only 3 conductors are used on the MIDI din, out of the 5).


Keyboard aready have midi out as well as usb out. No reason you can't run both standards at once.


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Old Post Feb-04-2009 02:05  Australia
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

quote:
Originally posted by kitphillips
Keyboard aready have midi out as well as usb out. No reason you can't run both standards at once.

No reason? Do you really not realize how difficult a proposition that is? Unless the new standard is perfectly 100% backward compatible (which it already isn't if it uses USB instead of MIDI), it effectively doubles the cost and quadruples the development time to support two standards at once.


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Old Post Feb-04-2009 04:26  Canada
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kitphillips
is actually a guy.



Registered: May 2006
Location: Sydney, Australia

Eh?

What I'm saying is: Most people run midi into their computers from a master keyboard over USB. Its easy to make this an OSC connection.

Often, MIDI is then run back out to modules. This could be done by setting up the keyboard to simply continue putting out midi on the midi ports, as most keyboards already do.

For newer hardware, it could send OSC out using a seperate jack.

Supporting MIDI isn't hard given that all the work's already been done. Most development time in interfaces is making sure that the device is ergonomically viable. Supporting OSC would be the same I would think?


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Old Post Feb-04-2009 05:24  Australia
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DigiNut
You kids get off my lawn!



Registered: Dec 2002
Location: Toronto, Self-proclaimed Centre of the Universe

quote:
Originally posted by kitphillips
Often, MIDI is then run back out to modules. This could be done by setting up the keyboard to simply continue putting out midi on the midi ports, as most keyboards already do.

First of all, MIDI is not just computers and keyboards. Outside the amateur production world, those account for maybe 5% of the total usage.

Even for just a keyboard, there are still all sorts of problems. The only times you tend to see multiple protocols supported on a single device are when the protocols are trivial to convert, like USB<->Serial, S/PDIF<->TOSLINK, VGA<->DVI, etc. You know that it's trivial because you can also buy a $10 adapter to do the conversion. When it's anything more complicated - like, say, the switch from parallel ports to USB on printers and scanners, or from PCI to PCI-E, or from RCA composite to HDMI, or from Compact Flash to Secure Digital, or from cassette to CD - it's not common at all to see crossover devices.

The crossover devices do exist, but think about it: the manufacturing period for these things was about 6 months in the computing and entertainment industries where the turnover rate (that is, time to obsolescence) is on the order of months if not weeks, and early adopters are plentiful because you're marketing to an audience of tens/hundreds of millions. And they were still expensive anyway. The audio industry moves at a glacial pace; crossover devices would have to be manufactured for years and years before anybody would be able to stop making the old stuff. And a lot of people probably still wouldn't buy them, because they'd see that the format wasn't widely supported anyway.

It's trivial to support multiple formats in software because code is effectively free. Hardware isn't. You have to pay for the circuitry and you also have to find space for the ports. That in turn increases the footprint of the device, so you not only have to pay for the additional electronics but also additional design and manufacturing. On an audio interface costing $1200, sure, it's pocket change, but on some inexpensive $50 MIDI device it's cost-prohibitive.

Everything about design and manufacturing seems simple when you're just the end user. Why can't Microsoft prevent those pesky blue screens? In reality it just isn't that simple.


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2009-02-21 - DJ Attention @ I'm So Popular
2009-06-18 - DJ Annoying @ People Need To Know Where I'll Be
2012-11-32 - DJ Insufferable ɸ Or At Least the Stalkers I Complain About
2048-06-66 - Spastic & Whocares Although I'm Actually Flattered
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Old Post Feb-05-2009 01:08  Canada
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MrJiveBoJingles
Supreme tranceaddict



Registered: Jun 2004
Location: U.S.

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut

Nice sig.

Old Post Feb-05-2009 01:17  United States
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Zak McKracken
Trance



Registered: Jun 2003
Location:

quote:
Originally posted by DigiNut
Why can't Microsoft prevent those pesky blue screens?

+1

Old Post Feb-06-2009 19:23 
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